To ask how many people have asked for a cesarean out of preference?

[VioletteValentia]

I did it. I’ve never met another person who has, or who has admitted to it. I have come across people who seem convinced that supporting maternal choice would lead to everyone asking for cesareans, which I think is bullshit. Not everyone wants one!

Did you do this? Would you? Would you be more likely to if you felt the option was equally acceptable?

I’m interested in how many women feel like I did.

I shouldn’t have to say this but...no “natural v cesarean” insulting please.

I have tokophobia, and was having twins so I insisted on a c-section.
It went really well, babies delivered safely and I was out of hospital in 3 days, out walking around the woods after 5 days. Can't even see the scar now. A very positive experience for me.

What an informative and well discussed thread.

I delivered vaginally first time around, and found it very traumatic. In fact towards the end I had no idea if I would survive it, and by the time dd was born I was too traumatised to care.

I opted for an ELCS second time around and it was fantastic. The screen was lowered so I was able to see her being 'born', and an hour later she was in my arms feeding. Subsequently, I had no bonding or bf'ing issues and none of the PND I had 5 years earlier.

It's about maternal choice, and informed choice. I am still surprised that in the UK, we are only told of the risks that accompany surgical birth. I delivered abroad, in a country where opting for a c-section is as usual as delivering vaginally.

So many great posts upthread. I am in total agreement. It is staggering that in the 21st century, opting to deliver surgically is still frowned upon when women continue to die in 'natural' childbirth.

Something interesting I think is left out of these discussions is privilege. It’s the ultimate privilege to claim “women have been giving birth forever! It’s natural!” and plan a birth in a pool with candles, when the reality is poor women is lesser developed countries are literally dying because they have no access to proper care when giving birth.

It’s easy to glamorise it when your mother didn’t bleed to death and your sisters daughter didn’t die to to a cord accident and your grandmother wasn’t left permanently incontinent.

I wonder what women from these countries where medical care is unavailable would think of well off women in America and the U.K. choosing this.

"No. Just no. C sections come with a number of risks which you do not get with natural child birth. Recovery is far quicker for most."

My child died during natural childbirth.
Of course it has risks.

In the Phillipines they birth two to a bed. My assistant is pregnant and going home for the delivery because she will be lonely in the private room here. I think we need to be careful how much we assume our own system is the most civilised just because we are first world. Lots of systems arent great but many poorer countries provide safer basic care than the NHS (bankrupt and dangerous) and the US which is corrupt. Most places have basic healthcare. In fact, I haven't been anywhere that doesn't and I have lived in thebshittiest African and ME countries. Best was Bangladesh.

I always wonder why people get so wound up about csections. Consider this scenario:

A man has a broken leg. He knows there are some risks associated with leaving it to heal naturally. Some of these risks would have a long term negative impact if they were to materialise and could affect him on a daily basis. He also could have an operation to repair his leg. This too has different risks associated with it and would generally involve a longer recovery time, however the risks are more known. Both options cost the NHS around the same amount of money if you factor in the costs of said risks materialising at a population level. The man assessed the risk profiles associated with both options and chose surgery as he felt more confident that this approach would work best for him.

Does this emote any response in anybody? I seriously doubt it does. Why are csections any different? I hate to suggest it, but is it because this a women's issue and therefore subject to more scrutiny than anything that impacts the general population (i.e. men)?

My first child died in the very early stages of labour at 40 weeks and I went on to deliver him vaginally 24 hours later. At my follow up appointment with a consultant he assured me that if I was to get pregnant again that he would order an ELCS at 37 weeks so that I didn't risk going into natural labour again. He was true to his word (although he said I could change my mind at any time). I had my CS at 37 weeks and it was a wonderful experience. Knowing I could have an CS took away some of my anxiety during the second pregnancy. I was so grateful to the care I received from the NHS.

mrspeacock

I’m so sorry to the ladies who lost their babies.

Oh I think you're absolutely right user. It goes back to the point I was making upthread about cultural context.

Women's bodies are more policed and politicised, so the bloke in your leg example might still get a bit more paternalism and grief if he were a woman. And possibly less effective pain relief. But there's no denying that childbirth gets particular attention on top of this. It's a toxic mixture of biological essentialism and sins of Eve-ing. There's usually some misunderstanding of the nature of evolution thrown in there too, though we've not had that on this thread yet fortunately.

I opted for elective c-section 17 years ago, and I'm so glad I did.
My GP was very grudging about referring me, but did, and the consultant was really supportive. I went in for my first appointment with him armed with my reasoning (which for me was basically the reduction in risk of side effects associated with vaginal birth) and he agreed with everything I said, and added a few more reasons why he believed it was a good idea himself.
I had been expecting to have to fight, but it wasn't like that at all.
My midwife was supportive, but others at the hospital when I actually had the c-section were quite open in making their disapproval known.
I don't understand why this issue seems to provoke such a reaction in some people.
I definitely support personal choice, and think that others should do the same- and as some posters have pointed out, the NHS should be discussing the pros and cons of all methods of delivery to let people make up their own minds.
Last thing- I'm sure that under current NICE guidelines, a woman has the right to request a c-section, and have her request granted. If a particular consultant is unwilling, they should refer to someone who will carry it out.

Spikeyball I see now how bad my post comes across. My point was not to say ncb comes with no risk.

My belief is when you become pregnant there is a huge chance you will end up having a vb. If you start asking people for consent for a vb there will then be an extra responsibility on midwives and doctors. Those who slip through the net. Those who refuse to sign anything. Babies who decide to make an early show and c sections are not a choice.

I see more now why people would elect for a c section. I am most probably speaking from a position where ncb was the text book type most would hope for.

User- just read your post (was typing at the time).
I so agree with you.

*but others at the hospital when I actually had the c-section were quite open in making their disapproval known.

Miserable twats! I’m glad you got your cesarean though!

My belief is when you become pregnant there is a huge chance you will end up having a vb. If you start asking people for consent for a vb there will then be an extra responsibility on midwives and doctors.

That’s their job though. To provide patient care. Surely it’s irresponsible not to?

I'm slowly getting my head around the idea that my DC2's birth in June will be a calmer, planned affair (ELCS). In my head I'm going to go into spontaneous labour and it's going to be hideous - I have no other frame of reference.

Another v valid reason for requesting a ELCS, particularly with a second baby, is that you can make provision for DC1. You know that you're almost certainly going to have your baby on x day, and can plan accordingly. I don't even know how I'd begin to plan if I were opting for a VBAC, we have no family locally to be 'on call'.

Beetle - I find it infuriating. By perpetuating the myth that there is a 'right' way (i.e. natural birth potentially with no pain relief), means there will always be a subset of people attempting to shame anyone that willfully deviates from what is expected. In all other medical procedures where there is an array of options this willingness to judge and shame just doesn't seem to exist.

I read a scientific publication each week (subscribed for DS but he got bored so I read it instead).
There was an article in there a few months ago about this issue, and I'm sure a consultant obstetrician was saying that the risk of anal tears with VB for a woman over 40 is 1 in 8.
He said with surgery, there is a requirement to discuss risks which exceed 1 in 1000.
He was highlighting this discrepancy, and seemed keen to even up the pitch.
Violette- agree with everything you have said.

VioletteValentia you seemed to miss out my examples of when this would be an added issue.

Sorry married what do you mean? You don’t know beforehand which women will have easy natural birth.

You can't consent to a vaginal birth. It's not a procedure. It's what happens (for better or worse) if you do nothing. What would the consent form even say?!

You have two choices, cesarean or vb. You should have to consent to either, or at least have the risks explained.

I had a really interesting conversation about vaginal birth and consent with some of our obstetricians the other day. Consent is a huge thing in the UK at the moment, there have been some really big legal cases recently that have challenged the way we consent patients. I said that I thought it bizarre that, for example, a patient having a hernia repair (very straightforward operation, risk of death negligible, risk of complications such as chronic pain in the region of 5%) I have to provide them with written information about the operation and its risks. I have to tell them any alternatives to surgery and discuss the options of keyhole surgery vs open, mesh vs no mesh. I then have to see them again, a week prior to their operation, to seek written consent and check their understanding of the risks, then again on the day of surgery.

How is it then acceptable that women don't receive written information regarding the risks of vaginal birth and the alternatives available to them? No written consent process, no verbal consent process. Vaginal delivery has a far higher risk of death and serious complication than a hernia repair in a similar patient. It's completely unacceptable to have this level of paternalism and I have no idea how obstetricians get away with it.

I did. My first pregnancy was twins (Ivf). My consultant was terrible, I had to really push for her to even discuss the birth as she kept saying next time, next time.

I was adamant I wanted a c section after reading the risks and pros v cons. My second twin was the bigger one and I was concerned that after giving birth naturally to the first that twin 2 would have become stuck.

She said oh well if that happens we can put an arm in and grab a leg if no joy we will go to an emergency c section.

She really couldn't understand why I wasn't happy with this and it took 2 more appointments and me doing the broken record technique to make her agree. She then wrote all over my notes "refusing a natural delivery".

As it happened I needed an emergency c section anyway and due to various factors had I given in to try for natural I would have more than likely lost both dc and possibly died myself.

Women should not have to jump through hoops like this, if they can demonstrate it's an informed choice it should be granted.