Ridiculous to try and sue a university over a "mickey mouse" degree?

[Creambun2]

thetab.com/uk/2018/03/10/a-graduate-is-suing-her-university-for-60000-for-giving-her-a-mickey-mouse-degree-62377

Surely, it is down to individuals to research their university and course appropriately and understand that whatever degree or university you go to, getting the job you want will be mostly about you and your skills?

I agree universities pump out lots of propaganda about "employment prospects" but saying, for example, 90% of graduates employed within 6 months means nothing is 89% of those are not in graduate level jobs.

Its sad that so many people defend the rights of universities to essentially post inaccurate information.

Of my friends that went to uni many of them will tell you that their course modules where changed with no thought to the students.

Its a huge issue when you need a particular module to progress and they take it off the course just before you start the final year.

It looks pretty likely that the student will fail in their case, as it's reported that her previous action has resulted in the university being awarded costs. Also perhaps worth noting that she is 29 and took a two year course that finished in 2013 so was not 18 when she chose this course. Plus as she is from Hong Kong she would have likely been looking at courses in a number of countries not just the UK so would have needed to do a lot more research than the average British 18 year old. Plus she chose a business degree so it was for the job prospects not the love of study so that would likely have been top of mind in her application process. Oh and fees for international students are much more variable than for domestic students. Angela Ruskin currently charges 12-14 thousand pounds for it's business degrees where Cambridge costs 30K.

I used to work for a university (not in the UK) with a very large international student cohort. Managing expectations was challenging at times, we marketed hard to get the students (it's a very very competitive field and we were not a top tier university) and some of them came from very different educational backgrounds and found the adjustment difficult. As an example we found that students from some countries found the focus on group work and aural presentations challenging as their previous education was more about tests and exams.

Personally I think the biggest issue in the UK is that degrees are too rigid. My children won't have to decide on their final degree until they are two years in, and in my province can transfer between universities taking credit gained with them rather than having to start again. I think we expect children/ young people to know their interests and passions far too early in the UK. On the downside degrees here take four rather than three years so a year's extra cost.

I don't know the ins and outs of the case but, as a recent graduate, one can ascertain quickly whether its a crap course or not. She could have dropped the course and went elsewhere.
The UK is becoming far too litigious.

Polytechnics should never have been turned into universities. Standards are lower there now and they tried to compete with the academic subjects which was not polytechnics strength.

*In my opinion we desperately need a 2-tier education system where only the most academic do a degree, those with highly theoretical leanings.

The doers, or less academic/theoretical thinkers get another form of education, equivalent to but not the same as a degree*

Maybe we could separate out academic universities from the ones with more practical courses. We could maybe call them, let me think a minute.... what about polytechnics?

I did chemistry at a uni not long after the polys got uni status. My best friend did chemistry at a “polyversity” :) as we used to call them.

It was quite clear that my course aimed to produce graduates for academia- lots of analysis of papers, critical thinking, presentation of work to peers etc. While my friends course was very practical and aimed much more at the world of work.

I have a horrible feeling that employers understand A level grades better than university degrees, and so recruit only from institutions with certain entry requirements. Degree class in itself is no guarantee of anything.

Polytechnics should never have been turned into universities

Agree 100%. It’s devalued academic degrees and devalued what the polytechnics did very well.

Other countries have really well regarded (and funded) non academic streams that qualify you in all sorts of potentially lucrative areas. Things like industrial electricians for example. By non academic I don’t mean lower ability, I mean the old fashioned ‘potentially leading to academia’ type definition.

By making everyone have a degree we’ve ended up with this ridiculous situation where anything non academic is seen as lesser and for people of lower ability when in fact many of these apprenticeship type pathways are very technical, highly skilled and likely to lead to lucrative careers.

Kids are getting into ridiculous debt to fund degrees that don’t give them either the pure academics side OR the skills they need. It’s no wonder they’re pissed off.

My degrees were sciences - but frankly my PhD showed me that our highly skilled technicians were in several cases smarter and more skilled than some of our PhD students. And yet they were paid less and restricted in their job trajectory because they didn’t have a PhD. Barmy.

We need to get away from this academia is everything mindset and start providing education that’s relevant to everyone - that’s going to need several different methods and streams, not a one size fits all degree mill structure.

What about teens who want to do arts degrees, English lit for example, but only get CCC? What do they do? Perhaps they don't want to be technicians!

You could still do English at polys though.

And lots of employers (well, some - certainly the Civil Service) are moving towards blind application processes.

Techie roles are only one stream of many - there should be non academic streams for all preferences.
The stereotype of all apprenticeships being manual work is the one that needs to stop.

I find it very strange that she didn't do a little bit more research before applying TBQH. I suspect she's not taking ownership of the decision she made. DNephew's girlfriend came from HK to do a Masters - at Durham University (she also applied to some other top quality ones over here). She had the nous to work out which unis would give her the best chances post her studies.

Tralalee, that’s all fine and dandy, but the reality it that an English course with an entry requirement is CCC is not going to provide the transferable skills (critical thinking, independent study, extended discursive writing, etc) that will add value in the job market. Fine if the student is fine with this, but less fine if the student believes that paying the fees and completing the course is a guaranteed route to a well-paid job.

Uninised to be for the top few percent academically. Now if 60% of students go that means that a significant proportion of students are below average in terms of academic achievement.

And that’s a problem. What’s needed is education that is varied enough that everyone can benefit, not allowing CCC students into substandard English courses and then them realising that they’ve been grossly failed by the system.

We really need to get away from the degree for all mode. It’s not helping anyone.

"but the people saying it were posting messages/sending emails telling people that their children had got into Oxford or got into Bristol knowing that they'd think it was Oxford/Bristol Uni rather than Oxford Brookes or UWE. Brookes/UWE are fine but making out your children are at a university that they aren't just suggests that you aren't proud of the one that they have gone to."

Oh, I see, the parents were lying. I thought they just hadn't understood that people made such a big difference.

an English course with an entry requirement is CCC is not going to provide the transferable skills (critical thinking, independent study, extended discursive writing, etc) that will add value in the job market

That's just not true. All degrees have independent study. All honours degrees have extended writing. All tutorials require critical thinking.

"Degrees are not easy, especially those that include a dissertation (the honours bit)"

You don't have to do a dissertation to get a degree with honours.

"not allowing CCC students into"

Is a C at A level really that bad? If you're doing A levels, you're already in the top half and a C is in the middle of that. It's nothing like a C at GCSE.

If you have a degree from the likes of CCAT and feel looked down on then try having an OU degree - mine 'isn't a real degree as anybody can do them''

Apparently my 2:1 in science is about the same as 3rd elsewhere.

"All honours degrees have extended writing."

No. At least mine didn't.
Most degrees in England and Wales are honours with anything over a pass - no need for extended writing or dissertation.

It isn’t great, no. It sounds a bit twattish and cruel to say but a student working at CCC at A level (and actually working at that level, not having a bad exam due to illness or extenuating factors etc) is not performing brilliantly.

Someone with an OU degree (imho) shows they’ve likely worked alongside - that’s not an easy thing to do. I’d be very willing to look at an OU holders CV. It shows drive and stickability to do an OU degree alongside everyday work etc.

turnip - I don't agree. OU degrees are very good, but then I would say that as I have one myself. They're easier than other degrees in the first one because they have to be for students without A-levels or access certificates or experience in the field, but they can be pretty challenging at 2nd and 3rd year. They're also usually done part-time and show that a person is hard working and good at time management.
I'm sorry to hear yours hasn't been taken seriously.
(I have to admit I did mine in something others here would call a Mickey Mouse subject, but it was mainly for the interest and sense of achievement).

This wasn't some naive 18 year old from a deprived sink estate and no parental support. This was a 23 yo (at least) international student from Hong Kong who was able to raise £30k a year and move half way around the world to study an accelerated degree in a foreign country and get a first. She didn't slip on a banana and end up at a university in Cambridge.

If she was to stupid to type 'Anglia Ruskin' into Google and research it for 5 minutes, then she doesn't deserve a degree from my back side never, mind Anglia Ruskin University.

"It sounds a bit twattish and cruel to say but a student working at CCC at A level (and actually working at that level, not having a bad exam due to illness or extenuating factors etc) is not performing brilliantly."

Not brilliantly, but are you saying they're doing badly? The marks go from A to E don't they and only about half will do A levels so a C student is surely in the top 20% of the population? Or am I misunderstanding?