Ridiculous to try and sue a university over a "mickey mouse" degree?

[Creambun2]

thetab.com/uk/2018/03/10/a-graduate-is-suing-her-university-for-60000-for-giving-her-a-mickey-mouse-degree-62377

Surely, it is down to individuals to research their university and course appropriately and understand that whatever degree or university you go to, getting the job you want will be mostly about you and your skills?

I agree universities pump out lots of propaganda about "employment prospects" but saying, for example, 90% of graduates employed within 6 months means nothing is 89% of those are not in graduate level jobs.

If you look at ex H, same degree, most have jobs, the spectrum is quite broad.

I like the idea of a cat with a BSc

If she doesn't have a good case then she will lose. She's not ridiculous to try because you personally don't think she should, without knowing much about the actual details of it.

They can't just be allowed to say anything they like to get students in.

Except in this case they were stating the truth!

I agree with curious, of course it's not untrue to say they have world leading research! I snorted at the idea that the Times HE rating is a reliable or sensible indicator, too. Sure, newspapers publish guidelines to universities and they can be very nice, but they're not even pretending to be a measure of research strength!

World class research is a pretty meaningless thing in many ways.

I chose to do my PhD with a research group at university x. Red brick, Russel group, decent enough but I’d never have chosen it as an undergraduate option. The single group I went to work with (which included one Nobel laureate and multiple outstanding researchers) was why I went.
I did plenty of teaching and marking there and I can say with 100% confidence that the general quality of teaching and the general calibre of student was well below where I’d gone for undergrad.

Students need to do a lot of research - when I went Oxford was crap for medicine for example, despite being outstanding for so many other things (and of course the name and the networking which are invaluable) .

Will be interesting to see how the case pans out.

It's an interesting test case but in my very honest opinion, an 'International Business Strategy" degree from Anglia Ruskin is a mickey mouse degree regardless of whatever they say in their marketing materials.

Isn't world leading research, just he same as a car manufacture advertising their car as one of the best in the world. I mean who spends £60,000 without checking what they are buying?

Disney should sue the student for defamation.

Yep, I'd like to see this one come to court.

It's an interesting test case but in my very honest opinion, an 'International Business Strategy" degree from Anglia Ruskin is a mickey mouse degree regardless of whatever they say in their marketing materials

You know that, and I know that, but the issue at hand is that if they are lying and misrepresenting themselves, how are young prospective students meant to know that?
Posters are saying "she should have done her research", but if the research is not accurate because they are making it so, how can they do that?

Sorry - unclear- that was meant non-sarcastically.

I would be curious to see the outcome.

It depends on the facts. If the university has made false or misleading claims, she's as entitled as anyone to recompense if she relied on those claims in making her decision to attend that university (just like you could sue any company who used false advertising to persuade you to buy a product).

I took the comments about being told to self study to mean that some timetabled lectures and seminars were not delivered and students were told to self study instead. It was in the context of lecturers being late and/or cutting sessions short. This would annoy me if I was paying the current fees.

I do think it'll be an interesting case. Students who have parents who know about university and have experienced it themselves will be much better informed when choosing a course or university. Students from backgrounds where parents can't advise as effectively should still get value for money. It's not fair to hook students into bullshit courses thinking it's 'just as good' as a degree from an RG.

I guess this is an additional danger in applying without 'local' knowledge. Most Brits would know that it doesn't have the same status as many, many other universities. The low entry requirements would be another indication, I would have thought.

I would have thought anyone applying from overseas would look at such measures, surely? Presumably most academic institutions do have some research of world class/renown? In itself it says little. As part of a bigger picture it would give a better indication of a university's 'quality'.

It is interesting that the linked article states that Anglia Ruskin had received more complaints and appeals than any other university in the UK. Surely that's indicative of something and would set off alarm bells?

It's sad that the main motivator for education seems to be employment. What about learning for the love of it. That's what universities should be about.

It's not sad its realistic.

I dont think it is realistic given that there aren't enough graduate jobs available for all the graduates

It requires a certain amount of savvy blast, which is lacking among many 18yr olds choosing courses; I don't blame them.

What I would say is don't sweat it, to her. My degree is now not that relevant anymore - granted it was from a fairly highly regarded university. But I think the problem is more the system itself - everyone and his dog has a degree these days. Unlike Germany where there is an ingrained culture of alternatives to getting a degree.

Apprenticeships have only been thrown into focus and companies are only just beginning to look at other qualifying routes rather than a degree.

Even so, many post-grads show up on their first day of work clutching their 1st or 2:1s from RG universities are still clueless about the working world. In short - the whole thing is fucked.

I always thought the risk of going to Uni at 18 was you'll do a degree in something you like, not necessarily something that will land you with a super job

I agree. At 18 unless you have guidance- ie parents who are familiar with the university system- or you have a definite career in mind like accountancy or medicine, you pretty much go in blind.

While i loved my degree, and it is a prestigious one, it is fucking useless for the field i actually realised i wanted to work in about 5 years after graduation. I was 18, i had taken a year out, i had parents panicking i wasn’t going to go to uni at all. I wanted to take more time but was pretty much told i was wasting my time not going, and if i got used to working and having money i wouldn’t go back to the student life.

So i picked the subject i found easiest at a’level. I had no clue how good it was until about second year when i realised my 40 yo lecturer had won a nobel prize, and i was actively head hunted despite being only an average student.

My stepson is looking at uni’s at the moment. Neither of his parents or their families went to uni. His current first choice is a total mickey mouse degree. But he has no idea- there’s no one to tell him that not all courses are equal and david beckham studies at x uni is completely different to a course at another uni, even if the course titles are the same. He likely won’t realise until his second or third year when he starts looking for a job..

Plus all the shit about russell group seems to be giving students the impression that all rg=quality, non rg = not as good.

@TotHappy at the current tuition fees, education certainly is an investment. Learning for fun with no consideration of how the degree may help you secure a well paid job is a luxury.

I think the fees are a big part of it. If lower quality universities were cheaper this would be more understandable.

I once spoke to a Law graduate with a 2:2 degree from Oxford Brooks hoping to get a training contract at a magic circle firm. I felt my heart-breaking a little as she had as much chance doing that as I do using my MN nickname as some sort of certification to get a job working for Vladimir Putin.

Surely she should have done her research before applying and completing the course

Indeed - and part of that research might have included whether leading employers would have recognised her "first class degree" in the first place. The sector I recruited in ranked Unis, and while I no longer know where Anglia Ruskin stand, degrees from the bottom 25% were counted as no degree at all - a useful if belated lesson for those who insisted that trash degrees really did count

Unfortunately this is where the everyone-must-have-a-degree, unemployment-figures-fiddling mindset has got us; too many with no academic aptitude at all are attending Unis who will say whatever necessary to get bums on seats/funding

I welcome this to be honest. Education post 18 that you have to pay £9K a year for is a service, just like any other. The Govt and colleges were warned that if you started asking people to pay for it then this sort of thing would happen.

Unis have to be honest in their prospectus and correspondence and if they aren't then they should be taken to task for it just like anything else. They are businesses now, not some sort of elite "the rules don't apply to us" organisation and they need to get themselves onto proper business footings with truthful communication at the heart.

If you come from a family with no history of going to Uni then you are less sceptical about the claims than others with experience. its alright saying buyer beware but honestly not many things cost £36K do they. if this was a flat that was mis-sold no one would bat an eyelid.

I would like to see more of this kind of pressure to get the number of courses down to those that seriously can deliver. some of these kids are getting into huge amounts of debt to come out 3 years later with no more chance of getting a decent job than a school leaver at 18.

Unis have to be honest in their prospectus and correspondence and if they aren't then they should be taken to task for it just like anything else. They are businesses now, not some sort of elite "the rules don't apply to us" organisation and they need to get themselves onto proper business footings with truthful communication at the heart.

Yeah, I'm totally sure that universities citing their world class research are totally different from any other business that tells us this cream is ranked first by 99% of women (out of a sample of 6 who were paid), or this car is number 1 in the world accredited ranking system (that we just made up).

You are exceptionally naive if you think universities are the only businesses that paint themselves in a good light.

Indeed - and part of that research might have included whether leading employers would have recognised her "first class degree" in the first place. The sector I recruited in ranked Unis, and while I no longer know where Anglia Ruskin stand, degrees from the bottom 25% were counted as no degree at all - a useful if belated lesson for those who insisted that trash degrees really did count

And is that information widely available? Can a 18 year old be reasonably expected to be able to find that out?

You are exceptionally naive if you think universities are the only businesses that paint themselves in a good light

That is exactly the opposite of what that poster said!