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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think reporting someone to dwp for going on holiday is ridiculous?

293 replies

CactusJelly00 · 10/03/2018 07:44

As it doesn't actually mean they're hiding income!
It's happened to someone I know; and she's now in the unfortunate situation of having some of her money stopped while everything is investigated and being treated like a criminal, as someone has reported her for having undeclared income.... because she went on holiday!
Aibu to think this is a ridiculous reason to report someone?
They know who's done it and why, but now she still has to prove herself to the DWP and I just think it's awful that someone's reported her for that.
Would anybody report someone for that? I just can't understand it.

OP posts:
ALongHardWinter · 10/03/2018 17:37

Since when did it become prohibited to take a holiday if you are on JSA? Does it not occur to these people that it may have been paid for by someone else,or they may have taken out a loan for it? Or used a credit card? Or is that not allowed either? It's not just JSA claimants who get this shit though. A certain radio presenter often bangs on about this and the DM quite often report on disabled people who are claiming ESA/DLA/PIP going on holiday. Just the fact that they managed to get on a plane seems to be proof (to them) that they can't possibly be disabled. How utterly ridiculous.

Bluelady · 10/03/2018 17:39

There are several reasons I wouldn't report:

Benefits are barely adequate to live on
Sanctions are draconian and cause incredible hardship
The amount involved is tiny in the great scheme of things
Huge corporations wriggle out of their tax - sort them out first
Unclaimed benefits amount to £ billions
It's none of my business

Frequency · 10/03/2018 17:44

I would only report suspected benefit fraud if the claimant was subletting a property in poor condition or if they were an actual millionaire and not paying tax on their undeclared income.

I'd report most other crimes but I'm less likely to report an adult for stealing a loaf a bread than I am to report a teen stealing a Mars bar.

YassQueen · 10/03/2018 17:44

I wouldn't report. The DWP will report any rise in benefit cases, the Daily Heil will jump at the chance to demonise the poor and arseholes on MN will gleefully wave it around and say "Look! Scroungers are benefit cheats, I'm working hard, why do they get holidays wah wah wah".

Not my circus, not my monkeys. I'd report any other crime.

YassQueen · 10/03/2018 17:45

Well, most other crimes.

TheFirstMrsDV · 10/03/2018 17:54

Those people who are aghast at the reluctance to report suspected benefit fraud, how many times have you reported suspected tax fraud?

Because I bet there are tons of people you suspect are not paying the full whack on everything. What about those famous people you are fairly sure are getting away with it?
Why don't you call the tax office now and ask them to investigate based on your hunch?

If you don't, where will it all end?

TheFirstMrsDV · 10/03/2018 17:55

The only time tax evasion is seen the same way as benefit fraud on MN is if it involves Travellers.
Then people are very interested in how much tax is being paid.

No one gives a toss if the evader looks like them and drives a car like theirs.

beluga425 · 10/03/2018 18:02

No one gives a toss if the evader looks like them and drives a car like theirs. this

Headofthehive55 · 10/03/2018 18:36

What I would like to see is rules that are easy to meet.
For example, the bedroom tax. Whilst on face value, no we shouldn't pay for spare bedrooms. However, making this rule needs to take into account the lack if smaller properties.
And expecting single mums to work if their child us 11. Fine when it's school term, but it's a long time to leave them in the holidays. There needs to be the jobs that fit in before deciding the rules.

Gilead · 10/03/2018 18:42

However, making this rule needs to take into account the lack if smaller properties
It goes further than that. Some folk need somewhere to store crucial medical equipment. Some people need a spare room for a carer to stay over a few times a week. These people are often penalised too.
and when the government is told they're wrong, they appeal

Chouetted · 10/03/2018 18:45

I spent £200 on a week's holiday in France last year. I paid for it out of several grand worth of backpayment after a PIP tribunal that took a year to happen.

Anyone who's jealous of my holiday would be quite welcome to it, provided they spent the prior six months barely able to afford food and rent.

I spent about the same for two weeks in Sweden a couple of years ago.

If I'd spent that amount of money on fags over the course of two years, no-one would bat an eyelid! What is it with frigging holidays?

Viviennemary · 10/03/2018 18:48

I thought on JSA you were allowed to go on holiday in the UK but not abroad. Because in the UK you are available for work. She knows the rules so if she broke them she's only go herself to blame.

Frequency · 10/03/2018 18:49

Single parents are expected to work long before their youngest child turns 11. I'm not 100% but I believe it's when the youngest child is around 3/4 and nearing school age.

Also what qualifies as having a spare room? I allegedly have one, except one of my daughters sleep in it. They used to share until we moved. I moved because one of them has mental health problems and self harms and needs her own space and privacy and the youngest could never have friends over because it upset the oldest (to the point where she cut/became incredibly distressed). I don't consider myself to have an unnecessary bedroom.

kittensinmydinner1 · 10/03/2018 19:12

Whoa slow down everyone . There is a lot of complete bollocks written about what / when benefit fraud is investigated. I was a bf Investigator for over 32 yrs and still investigate it albeit at a higher level.

  1. The first thing we assume in cases like this is a malicious allegation. It is VERY common for people to make these allegations if they see neighbours living a life they think they shouldn't be. We will ONLY ever investigate IF - following allegation and basic checks, we have reasonable cause to think there is undeclared income.
  2. You don't get investigated for going on holiday. ! The going on holiday COULD be an indicator of undeclared income. This alone would not make an investigation viable (or proportionate)
  3. Benefit can be suspended for going on holiday. This is not done for fraud but for failing in the 'conditions of entitlement' and related - almost always- to Jobseekers Allowance. If you claim this money, you sign to say you are actively seeking work . If you are on holiday you are not doing that. However you are allowed to go on holiday , you just have to notify the job centre. I think you are allowed either 2 or 3 Weeks a year. If you don't notify, a job comes up and are unavailable. You are not entitled. Simple as that.
If you claim income support or carers, this does not apply.

The most common reason for the type of investigation mentioned by OP is a 'match' from the inland revenue suggesting the claimant has a lot more savings than declared when they claimed.
This would trigger the sort of questions now being asked.

For the person saying they wouldn't report because it doesn't 'directly' affect them. Then you are misguided. If you pay tax. They are stealing from you.

StellaWouldYouTakeMeHome · 10/03/2018 19:15

I was going to have a big paragraph about this. But it’s made me too angry!! Let’s hope none of you who judge others become disabled yourself otherwise be prepared to live in rags and eat beans on toast as that’s apparently all you deserve. No quality of life for you.

I’m embarrassed and ashamed that there are genuinely actually people who think that way. It makes me sad

Gilead · 10/03/2018 19:21

Kittens, taking into consideration that you are able to access bank accounts, using your logic, you would only investigate people working on a cash in hand basis. I cannot see any other reason to investigate. We were though, more than once and as stated earlier it was malicious, but it took more than one investigation to establish that. There were absolutely no grounds for any investigation other than tittle tattle, but the DWP still felt that there was an undeclared income? A situation, in our circumstances I find highly unlikely.

WhoWants2Know · 10/03/2018 19:32

I can't remember who it was that said it, but I always remember: "The only time you should be looking at your neighbour's plate is to make sure they have enough."

I can't imagine looking at another human being and thinking "They should have less, and I'm going to try to make that happen."

Frequency · 10/03/2018 19:33

For the person saying they wouldn't report because it doesn't 'directly' affect them. Then you are misguided. If you pay tax. They are stealing from you

Bollocks. If not a single person claimed fraudulently, my income tax would not go down. The government would use it on useless tosh instead, like ponds for their back gardens, second houses and 'incentives' for their wealthy mates.

If they stopped doing all that and forced their mates to pay tax there'd be more than enough in the pot to pay a comfortable level of disability benefit and livable level of unemployment benefit.

ElenOfTheWays · 10/03/2018 19:54

Highly amused by the idea running through this thread that if the government managed to clamp down on 100% of benefit fraud that somehow that saved money would filter through to the genuine claimants.

Really? Confused

That's pretty naive.

Bluelady · 10/03/2018 20:01

What Frequency said.

TheFirstMrsDV · 10/03/2018 20:13

She knows the rules so if she broke them she's only go herself to blame.

Who are you talking about?

demonchilde · 10/03/2018 20:41

Those people who are aghast at the reluctance to report suspected benefit fraud, how many times have you reported suspected tax fraud?

^ Exactly!!

Some of the comments on here are astounding. 'If you're well enough to go on holiday, you're well enough to work'. What? Do you have any idea what it can be like like for those who are disabled and their families and carers? What some of them would give to JUST work (hard, of course) from '9-5', and not up to 24 hours a fucking day, day in, day out for no pay, no thanks, no options, no prospects. What it is like to have or develop a disability than can cost you everything you hold dear - your job, your freedom, your independence, your future, and quite possibly your life- through no fault of your own? You begrudge those people a holiday, just one thing in their life to look forward to? What the actual fuck is wrong with you?

I've claimed benefits because of health problems, and because I care for a disabled child. And I've been on holidays. Looking forward to them has often been the only good thing my children have had, so I do I feel bad about going or that I was wrong for going? Do I fuck!! I've never been to Disneyland and never would as it's really not my thing. But I am going to Zante for two weeks this summer. Can't wait. To anyone who begrudges me that - pm me your details, I'll send you a postcard - give your bit more bile to add to add to all that self righteous indignation and bitterness you are drowning in...

CaptainBrickbeard · 10/03/2018 20:54

I’ve seen posts on here expressing disapproval of biscuits in the food bank donations because poor people shouldn’t have any treats, only the bare minimum to survive. I wonder how utterly lacking in imagination, empathy and understanding any one person’s mind can truly be. The narrow, unfulfilling life someone must lead in order to glean satisfaction from attempting to deny another person a holiday is truly depressing to contemplate.

Graphista · 10/03/2018 21:04

'My sil works investigating benefit fraud. I am agog with the stories she tells.'

My friend works in benefit fraud over 20 years - I hope this is a bravado post and not actually true because they're not allowed to do this.

"Not if she didn't name or identify them" the very nature of the info needed to tell the stories would be possibly identifying so they're told not to risk it at all. It's also advised against as it makes them look biased.

She IS a bright, thoughtful woman though I am surprised she's ended up in this job as she's not an unkind person. She started off "just" in the job centre generally and this is where she ended up via what promotions were available.

I've had 3 malicious reports made, 2 by ex which is particularly disgusting as it most affects dd. 1 I suspect was a neighbour who seemed to be of the "anyone not working and on benefits should be euthanised" yet she hadn't worked herself since becoming pregnant with her first child and didn't view herself as receiving benefits (council tax rebate, tax credits and child benefit).

Unless you have access to someone's full financial info you can't possibly know how they manage to afford X y z.

The "it takes money from the genuinely needy" argument doesn't stand up under this govt. Any money they "save" goes into the pockets of their already wealthy friends who don't pay what they should in taxes far as I can see.

"Bollocks. If not a single person claimed fraudulently, my income tax would not go down. The government would use it on useless tosh instead, like ponds for their back gardens, second houses and 'incentives' for their wealthy mates." Definitely

The disproportionate resourcing assigned across benefit fraud v tax evasion v child maintenance avoidance (which often includes tax evaders who are lying to hmrc in order to avoid paying more or any child maintenance) is disgusting. Yet when was the last time you read/watched a journalistic report on an individual "normal" person being vilified for not paying child maintenance or lying to the tax authorities?

Lots of single parents have reported nrps as likely tax evaders and are often told nothing can be done ie they are ignored! I'm sure that's nothing to do with the fact most reporting are women and evaders are men 🤔

"No one gives a toss if the evader looks like them and drives a car like theirs." Exactly

Kittens - that's not been my experience. Each time those malicious reports were made my benefits were stopped immediately "pending investigation" the investigations took forever leaving me really struggling to the point of missing meals so dd could eat. And I can assure you I had done NOTHING wrong I'm pathologically honest generally and certainly wrt this.

And actually here's a question - given its acknowledged by you and more importantly the govt that MOST reports are malicious (and therefore false) WHY aren't the reports assessed for validity first? Thinking THAT would save a LOT of time and money.

And yes - I question the motives of those reporting - isn't going to make their lives any easier.

Ted27 · 10/03/2018 21:05

demonchilde - Zante is lovely, you will have a great time. Enjoy your holiday. Greece is great for children.

We went to Rhodes last year, saved for a year for it. Youth hostelling in Wales and Brighton this year.
Yes I receive benefits for a disabled child and I do the 9 to 5 'slog' as well.

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