To go on holiday without my teenager?

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I'd be really interested in an outside perspective on this as I can't decide if what we are considering is reasonable or not.

Daughter is 18, 19 this summer, and a full time student. We would like to book a holiday to the US for two weeks this autumn, to include her, her siblings and dh and I. Our daughter will only come on holiday with us if her boyfriend is allowed to come, however. We took him on a long haul holiday last year, and it cost us the best part of £2k for his share. He is a nice lad, we like him a lot, but his presence inevitably changes the family dynamic (as you'd expect, and as is possibly inevitable within the family anyway as children grow up) and he and dd argue quite a lot. There were instances on the last holiday of one or both of them storming off for hours, refusing to get out of the car at a destination, refusing to come into a restaurant etc, not talking to one another, perhaps every couple of days. It overshadowed the holiday. It's not a destination where they can be terribly independent either.

Since then we have been on a couple of UK holidays without them. She refused to come without him, I refused to take him and it caused upset. We now want to go long haul and she will be very upset and angry that we are going on a special holiday without her. However we can't afford to take her boyfriend, don't want to if I'm honest (because of the arguing, not because of him per se), and don't want to not go simply because she is refusing to come. That doesn't seem fair on her siblings.

To avoid drip feeding, she is going away this year with him - they are having a week all inclusive in Spain, a week in France, a week skiing. However that doesn't really change the fact she would be left out of the family holiday.

Would we be unreasonable to go without her?

You need to cut the purse strings. Give her a life lessons. Tell her if she continues to rage at you she can find somewhere else to live. Also dont be blackmailed about college courses. By funding ger education you are bankrolling her many holidays (she sounds so spoilt). If she uses course dropping as blackmail remibd her that shes got used to the high life snd is going to need that education to get the same livibg standards. Suicide threats ate a bit different. I dont think for one moment shes really suicidal but perhaps finding her someone to talk to (Samaritans, her college counsellor) might help.

Stand up to her more. Refuse to accept this behaviour. Stay calm. Recognise that living like this is not an option anymore. Its all very well saying you shoukd have fone something sooner. Suggest you still try and do something now. Whilst you still fund her lifestyle you still have leverage.

To those who have suggested that we have made a rod for our own back - you're absolutely right, I can only hold my hands up to that one. She was a bit spoilt as a child and we let her get away with far more in her early/mid teens than we should have. Her teens were one long struggle, where she made threats and manipulated us to get her own way. Some of the things she did back then make this look mild.

To the person who suggested there is more going on here - not really. She is a (too) well loved child with perfectly well adjusted siblings. Whilst some of this is a result of our parenting, and some is down to her school environment and the crowd she grew up with, a large part seems to be down to who she is. There is something that I can't put my finger on, but I don't know what it is. I know this isn't how teens usually behave, but I don't know to what degree it's our fault/personality/late maturity or the possible something else.

And yes, she does live at home. We cut off the supply of money when she was 16 or so, in an attempt to get her to get a job and grow up a bit. She struggles to keep her jobs - she's probably had in the region of 15 or more jobs, all have supposedly ended due to something outwith her control (bad bosses, unreasonable work conditions, not being paid on time, you get the idea). She has held down the current job for a few months which is a record, as she has holidays to pay for, but mainly I suspect that most things are paid for with the help of her boyfriend who is much more stable.

Do you mean that you didn't pay for anything at all after the age of 16 OP? If so, I think that is the other extreme. Most people still give 16 year olds some money and don't expect them to fund everything themselves if they are still at school.

Wow. Are you sure she's not got some kind of undiagnosed behavioural issue? I've never seen an adult (nearly 19!) behave in such a way.

Honestly I'd tell her she's welcome to drop the course - but then she won't be a full time student and will need to find a job and somewhere to live as you won't fund her lifestyle. Don't let that threat be a rod to beat you with.

As for suicide threats? She sounds far too self-involved to risk her own life.

I'd let her know in no uncertain terms that she's on thin ice re her position in your home. Tell her that she'll always be a part of your family but if she can't get her act together and treat you with basic courtesy and respect then she won't be a part of your household for much longer.

She's nearly 19, FFS! Best thing you can do for her is teach her that if she acts this way in life nobody will employ her and you sure as hell won't subsidise her. Please tell me you don't currently financially subsidise her...?

Sorry but she sounds like a right brat and you are enabling her. Time for her to grow up and ACT HER AGE. Jesus, if I'd pulled any of that crap with my Mum (at any age) I'd would have been told in no uncertain terms to pack it in.

And time for you to stop putting up with this shit. Put your foot down and help her be a better person.

Can you show her this thread OP? It might make her realise how immature she's being.

And yes, she does live at home.

Does she pay bed and board?

Does she pay bed and board?

Considering that OP can afford long haul holidays I think it would be very unreasonable to charge bed and board considering her dd is a full time student. That would be going from one extreme to the other.

I'm no expert whatsoever OP, but the way you describe your dd makes me think she sounds more than just selfish and spoilt. What with the 'sense of entitlement' she clearly displays, and the 'nothing is ever her fault' reasons she gives for losing so many jobs.

Add to this her extremely over the top anger and, in my view, she sounds quite narcissistic.

No, she is at college full time so only works part time (and doesn't usually keep jobs for more than a week or two) so doesn't have the money to pay board. We feel it's fair to support her whilst she is in education. We pay for some things - anything education related, toiletries, travel, mobile bill. Up until Christmas she had a clothes allowance. Everything else she covers, basically social life, luxuries and now clothes.

YANBU. Your dd is an adult. If she wants to holiday with her BF they should work to fund their own holidays. Everyone has to cut the apron strings and stop living off the bank of mum and dad at some stage.

DD is an adult. Your money - you call the shots. It's hard at first. I've done this 5 times! But once they "get" that being an adult brings about adult responsibilities they learn pretty quickly.

Hope you have a fantastic holiday

Well hopefully this is a lesson learned for her op. Well done!

It doesn't sound as if you have spolit her so her expectation that you should pay for her boyfriend seems very odd to say the least. Her holidays sound expensive and considering that she doesn't keep jobs for long, do you think he has paid for her holidays and so she is trying to return the favour by getting you to pay for him?

spolit spoiled

Go without her. She’s an adult. And why would you pay for her boyfriend?!

Francis my (kind, wise, sensible) younger daughter once said that she loves her sister but doesn't like her, and that's a generous comment really. She put them through hell in her mid teens. They are relieved because the holiday will be peaceful, as sad as that is.

Dungeondragon I suspect he pays for lots of things, but he has been with her long enough to know it's not a reciprocal thing.

Perhaps it would help if you stop buying specific things for her such as toiletries, mobile, travel and just give her a certain amount to cover what you are currently paying for. Then she can organise her finances in a similar way to other students. It may make her appreciate the value of things a bit more if she is organising her own finances as she currently doesn't seem to get that it is outrageous to expect you to pay for her boyfriend.

I've just come across this old thread and thought I would update. We stood firm and went on our holiday. We had a long frosty summer with her refusing to talk to us, and a few occasions on holiday where she tried hard to rock the boat. However I'm glad we went - it sets the tone for the future. Thanks for your support, all.

Did she go with you?

No, she didn't

Holidays with a boyfriend only come when you can pay for those holidays yourself. If she was footing the bill for herself and boyfriend, then you could be equal adults planning a shared trip. If you are footing the bill than she travels in the role of child and you make the decisions.

YANBU