Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think Mumsnet need to revise their talk guidelines?

379 replies

abeautifulmess · 05/03/2018 15:43

I have reported a number of threads recently and the mumsnet response has been 'we don't allow posts that break our talk guidelines' and nothing has been done when the whole thread has been attacking a particular (and vulnerable) group.

AIBU to question these guidelines and how they are applied?

OP posts:
JamPasty · 05/03/2018 22:01

Threads, even - can't spell tonight

PoppyCherry · 05/03/2018 22:04

As I'm sure you're very aware the OP cannot mention any of your other post without this one being deleted. Threads about threads are deleted.

Nope.

LineysInTheSnow · 05/03/2018 22:22

I've seen lots of quoting of posts from other threads on MN. Often on Feminist Chat as it happens. E.g. 'I've seen this on another thread, thought it was relevant to this discussion, and just going to quote it here' kind of thing.

WappersReturns · 05/03/2018 22:41

You're right OP I don't know you or your circumstances but it's clear that you don't know what it is that these threads you object to are speaking up against.
You think that it's trans people. We're telling you it isn't. It's trans activists. We're trying to explain to you the difference and what that means for the wider trans community. Do you know why Truscum is called that? Trans activists despise trans women who transition fully, the removal of the penis is abhorrent to trans activists and they refer to these trans women who endure surgery as "truscum".
Does that sound supportive to you? Don't you wonder why they value the retention of a penis so very much? They abuse those transwomen, they abuse trans men who were born female, they abuse women, they abuse lesbians for not being sexually attracted to a penis and yet you claim that objecting to those things is victimising a vulnerable group?
Do you truly believe that homosexuality is a fetish? Is that what you support? That's what we're speaking out against not trans people. I left mumsnet because I felt offended on behalf of my child when I read the trans threads, then my child reached out to the so called trans community for support and was met with unspeakable vitriol. It was only then that I realised that it was people like my child that these women here wanted to protect.

MipMipMip · 05/03/2018 22:43

I suspect a thread I started may be one that the OP is referring to. It's about the attitude of militant trans and is done in a light hearted way (their guiding songs). But it IS about the militant ones, not the live and let live people who have been getting on with their lives all this time. Many of whom feel the same way about what has happened.

Trying to understand the influences and motivation behind these people (don't read anything into that phrase - I'm fed up of writing militant trans) is important. And if using a lighthearted manner to do so is seen as offensive then I'm sorry. In my case it is not my intention to hurt anyone. But it is important that these things are discussed and fears shared and, if needed, plans of action made. This is our future we are talking about and we need to protect it. And doing so will actually protect people with body dismorphia too as the proposed plans have the potential to cause harm in as variety of ways.

LadyMcLadyCrisps · 05/03/2018 22:54

MipMip

Sorry, but Your thread is really not nice, I have just seen it and reported it. Here we all are saying Mumsnet isn’t Transphobic, and that pops up! Trans Theme tune? Really?

LadyMcLadyCrisps · 05/03/2018 22:57

So, I shall eat my words. I have JUST witnessed Innapropriate ‘Transphobic’ (in my opinion) behaviour on mumsnet. I have also reported it. Very Disappointing. Sad

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 05/03/2018 23:02

The vast majority of people have seen transphobic, homophobic, sexist, racist and disabalist posts on mumsnet

But when they happen they are reported and deleted

Thats the important thing i think

MipMipMip · 05/03/2018 23:48

Lady I also clarified on that post as to what it was about as I felt it was unclear. And I think that's one of the problem with online - you can't read tone. I have absolutely no problem with people with Body Dismorphia. I treat them exactly as I treat anyone else, if I even notice. Which is rare, as I have other things to think about that how the rest of the world look. The thread was about militant trans, the ones who are preventing proper mental health treatment by saying anyone questioning trans is a terf, the ones who were pushing self ID, the ones advocating violence to anyone who doesn't like #NoDebate. As I said in my thread it was not about most trans people who just want to get on with life. It's about the ones who want to cause harm in other peoples lives.

I worded it badly but I assure you the intention was not to cause hurt, just a new way of looking at it and at the influences that contribute to certain behaviour.

I am sorry to have caused offence.

Original poster
abeautifulmess · 05/03/2018 23:53

I honestly do not know what to think. I get the need for humour sometimes, but how is it not offensive? Read some of the suggestions. It isn't a debate. It isn't educating about definitions etc as suggested by previous posters.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3184171-Trans-theme-tune

And it's still up.

OP posts:
Original poster
abeautifulmess · 05/03/2018 23:54

Sorry Lady - saw your comments on the other thread but not on here

OP posts:
saoirsesoige · 05/03/2018 23:55

So you finally found a single transphobic thread, well after you started a post about there being so many of them (so many you couldn't find one t link to).
You must be so pleased that poster put it up!

CadyHeron · 05/03/2018 23:56

This is one of the few places online where issues arising from self ID and threats posed to women by activists (NOT trans people; the rabid activists) can be discussed. Why would you want to censor that?

Exactly.

Original poster
abeautifulmess · 06/03/2018 00:01

I didn't find it - Mipmipmip the OP on that thread came on here to talk about it and I was responding to them. I don't know what threads/posts other people on here have been talking about and I would imagine that they have been taken down (like I assume that one will be).

OP posts:
saoirsesoige · 06/03/2018 00:03

Your OP is that there are loads of transphobic threads that you personally have reported yet aren't taken down. That's your issue. So why can you not link to any of these many threads you are so bothered by?

Is it because they don't exist and you're just another poster pretending there are to push your own agenda and try and shut us all up?

CadyHeron · 06/03/2018 00:09

I've found the opposite actually - that the Feminist Chat board in particular has become much more explanatory.

I can agree, as I've recently started to visit the feminist chat board despite being on here years and hiding the feminist forums as yawnsome loonies that I hide.
Despite me being a woman myself.
This self ID'ing proposal is important to all women if you care to listen and open your eyes a little bit.
So if I identified as a bloke and walked into the gents tomorrow morning? Would that be automatically OK? I'm assuming so as that's precisely what's being discussed but the other way around.....

Original poster
abeautifulmess · 06/03/2018 00:11

It wasn't actually only trans that my original OP was talking about - I said trans when asked which groups in particular and the last few threads/posts that had bothered me were related to trans.

I really have tried hard in this thread to not push an agenda and to listen and take on board what people (who are much more informed/experienced) have to say. I have PM'd people to ask for clarification or talk about threads rather than air everything publically. I have tried to report this thread to close it as I don't think anything useful came from it and I don't want to offend anyone. I don't think it was a very well worded OP and I have apologised when necessary. I'm not sure what else to do - other than post links to threads and be told the many reasons I am wrong to feel bothered by them.

OP posts:
Original poster
abeautifulmess · 06/03/2018 00:22

I am going to step away from this thread now as it has become something different to what I intended. So I am not ignoring any future posters individually, just not reading any more. Thanks everyone who contributed - it has given me lots to think about.

OP posts:
saoirsesoige · 06/03/2018 00:26

It wasn't actually only trans that my original OP was talking about - I said trans when asked which groups in particular and the last few threads/posts that had bothered me were related to trans

You said A particular group. Now you are saying that wasn't what you meant.
You never answered my (and others) question. You can't tell us what these terrible threads are, or what they are about, yet you are so outraged that the site owners didn't listen to you about them that you started this.

crunchymint · 06/03/2018 00:31

I think there is an issue with disablist comments. But MN does not exist to stop people saying that transgenderism is anti feminist. The transgender movement is rightly a concern for many parents.

TattyTShirt · 06/03/2018 02:00

OP when the going gets tough the tough get going.....Why start a thread about something you have no idea about and then run when posters give you the true concept?

If you cant stand the heat ....Get out of the kitchen, springs to mind....Oh you are already out! Bye!!

CadyHeron · 06/03/2018 02:30

It wasn't actually only trans that my original OP was talking about

So what was it about then if not trans? Genuine question. Why try to close it down when people start to question?
Why say MN need to revise their talk guidelines if it was only ever a generic, rhetoric question in the first place?

EllieMe · 06/03/2018 05:39

This is one of the few sites where honest discussions can be had about the activities of TRAs and their desire to silence women.

I was a member of a Labour Party Forum and a few TRAs there shut down any discussion at all about women's safety or women's refuges. Their shrieks of transphobia and name calling of women concerned about how we are being thrown under a bus drove me away.

CobraKai · 06/03/2018 07:13

Lots of the LM threads were vile and had to be taken down. I've seen a post op transwomans vagina described as 'just an open wound that needs dilating'. Misgendering. Talk of men in dresses and perverts. A thread the other week about a transwoman who used to be a jockey, the only point of the thread seeming to be objecting to transgenderism itself. Widely reported and lots of people on the thread said they thought it was transphobic but left to stand.

I actually agree with most of the predominant views about self ID etc but to claim there is no transphobia is just laughable.

All you have to do is look at the first page of the feminism board. Replace 'trans' with 'disabled' for each trans thread and would that look okay? Just the sheer number of them for a start. Or would you think there was a general slant towards not liking or accepting that particular group?

I know it's the TRAs most people have an issue with but it doesn't always come across that way.

And now lots will argue about it not being misgendering to call a man a man when that is an example of transphobia in itself (which would likely get you fired from some jobs) but those people won't see it like that 'I won't lie' etc etc so it goes round in circles ...there's no transphobia, oh yes there is, oh no there isn't etc

NerrSnerr · 06/03/2018 07:24

I think something else to be mindful of is that everyone is very aware of these discussions on here but no one takes it seriously. There is a lot of mocking about the 'feminists' on Mumsnet if you look at twitter, Reddit etc.

I have looked at some of the twitter accounts of people from the anti trans Mumsnet and I think some of the opposition they have faced couldn't give a shit about anything trans related, they just love the reaction they get and logging onto here to see if they've caused any 'hysteria'. (I know about the word hysteria but that's how it's seen).

To be taken seriously I think the many LM threads, threads about teenagers, threads about any news story related to anything trans whether it's about self ID or not need to be scaled down as it makes Mumsnet look like it's jumping on anything trans related and not just self ID and that's what everyone keeps saying it the only issue.