To think that Elsa was actually a bit of a shit?

[noodleaddict]

She ran away leaving her land in deep winter then was prancing about on a mountaintop singing about how wonderful and free she was without giving her people a second thought.

She struck her sister twice - ok, the first was a mistake but you'd think she'd have learned her lesson by the second time.

When Anna came to ask for her help she basically told her to fuck off then created a snow monster to chase her over a precipice (after striking her, as above).

Plus who would be happy living in an ice palace alone in the mountains? How did she eat? What did she do all day?

The other bit that bothers me is the 'sexy' hip-swinging walk she does when she first puts on the frozen dress. It's totally unnecessary. Why, just why?

Possibly overthinking this.

Elsa's dress didn't need to be quite so sexy, did it?

Ooh, yes it did.

Anyway, if you thought that dress was too sexy, don't watch Pocahontas.

I'm still struggling with the whole sexy dress/walk bit. Yes, she's 'coming of age' 'finding her sexuality' but does that have to involve wearing a pretty dress and doing a ridiculous sexy walk? Why can't she discover the wonder and beauty of her powers without this?

She's got herself a stunning gown and a new sexy walk and there is nobody around to see them but her. As far as she's concerned, there never will be. And she's happy.

It is absolutely 100% for herself, and that's fabulous.

'I'm still struggling with the whole sexy dress/walk bit. Yes, she's 'coming of age' 'finding her sexuality' but does that have to involve wearing a pretty dress and doing a ridiculous sexy walk? Why can't she discover the wonder and beauty of her powers without this?'

She's got herself a stunning gown and a new sexy walk and there is nobody around to see them but her. As far as she's concerned, there never will be. And she's happy.

It is absolutely 100% for herself, and that's fabulous.

I so agree, @PoorYorick it's great. It's a message that has really struck a cord with my DD1 and I applaud it.

Oh dear, I did something wrong there with the bold lol.

It is a stunning dress, to be fair.

I still like Moana better. She also goes through the process of finding out who she is and what she's capable of, but without needing to change anything about her appearance.

I am part Swedish American. The "conceal it, don't feel it" advice rang very true for me with how my mom's family (the Swedish side) dealt with problems- don't show your feelings, try to act like everything is normal as much as you can. Her parents may have treated her that way because that's all they knew. The movie seems to be set in a time before the internet, so they presumably didn't have Google or Mumsnet to try to research something different.

My thought on the fifth or so viewing of Frozen with DD was, if Elsa doesn't realize she could conquer the world with those powers, she's a fool. Ask anyone who studies Russian history what the military applications of winter on demand might be.

What worries me is that Elsa cuts off the Duke of Weaselton, Arendelle's biggest trading partner, and Prince Hans has given away all their cloaks and blankets (tradeable goods). Arendelle is headed for rocky times financially, and surely the townspeople would be going 'we've had enough of winter for now, thanks, and we need to get on with making more blankets' when Elsa suggested she freeze the town square again. Nothing suggests she's actually going to be a good Queen.

Anyone See the Kingsmen? There's this awul bit where a woman locked in prison offers the protagonist anal sex to save the world.
It's just shite. Ruined a fun movie.

Anyway, the director or writer whoever was complaining about feminists who didn't get it. She was actually empowered because she offered the anal sex. See? Stupid feminists.

Sort of glosses over the point that she's a character in a film and didn't actually do anything but be written. And that the writers who were probably men decided they wanted to show her ass in the air about to get penetrated.

That's a bit like the "elsa was on her own and fabulous" comment. Elsa isn't real. She's a character written for children who shows that being empowered means doing a sexy walk, which is NOTHING like a swagger.

Yabu, that was the point. She's an emotionless, dead-inside, damaged ice queen.
I prefer the original.
(The 'sexy' bit must have passed me by so can't comment on that).

I still like Moana better. She also goes through the process of finding out who she is and what she's capable of, but without needing to change anything about her appearance.

Not seen Moana, but I've heard good things about it...will have to get it.

On the Elsa point, she doesn't modify her body. She's not like that twat Ariel. She just changes her style. Her dress, her hairstyle, her approach to life. We all do that as we grow up and get older...imagine still dressing and acting like you did at 16.

How you dress has a huge impact on how you feel. It's not about mindlessly following shallow trends, it's about self expression and how you present yourself.

She's a character written for children who shows that being empowered means doing a sexy walk, which is NOTHING like a swagger.

Why are you homing in on this 'sexy' walk as if it's the only thing she does? She also gives some damn good advice about relationships, tries to protect her sister (she's misguided but she honestly believes it's the only way to keep Anna safe), uses her amazing powers to build a fabulous ice palace, performs the mother of all 'fuck you' songs and is crowned Queen? All without a man and absolutely no interest in finding one?

She is a FABULOUS character. She's thrown off her shackles, she SHOULD be striding around confidently in a stunning gown.

TEAM ELSA.

Whoever doesn't want to sell blankets, food, whatever to Arendelle on extremely favourable terms is going to experience some unseasonably cold weather. Arendelle will be fine, at least until Elsa dies.

Arendelle is Weselton's number one trade partner. It doesn't follow that Weselton's trade is equally important to Arendelle, or that Arendelle couldn't try to build other trade relationships. You lot may be about to find that out firsthand. The UK's largest trade partner is the EU. It doesn't follow that UK trade is equally important from the point of view of the EU.

I thought that bit was awful valentines. Enjoyable film, a woman in it who can fight and then by the end, women are just an arse hole to fuck. There must have been so many women in the cinema going wtf?!

And Elsa's dress doesn't mean she's changing her appearance to find out who she is. She's letting go (!) of her past and wearing a dress made from the ice power she's had to hide. As for the sway, it's meant to show her walking powerfully and with confidence as she sings. She's swaying with the music! People are reading the sexy into it I think!

She was abused! Her parents forced her to isolate from the world as a young child because of one mistake. I spent too much time thinking about this but, I see the parents as the true baddies of Frozen.

She has no idea how to let people close to her.
"Conceal Dont feel!"

Who ruled the kingdom between the parents dying and Elsa coming of age? Everyone seemed pretty quick to hand it all to Hans, was there not a grand vizier/uncle knocking around?

Her parents weren't 'baddies', they did what they thought was right as we all do. They were mistaken but they weren't bad. They were the products of their own upbringing just as we all are. As someone upthread hinted at they remind me very much of QEII who put duty ahead of motherhood and sacrificed the future of her son in the process.

They were the classic case of trying to do right and accidentally fucking up your kid. Terrifying.

How did she get her powers? No child is born with powers like that. There has to be a back story somewhere.

According to the parents, she was born with them. Interesting that the head troll asked if she'd been born with them or cursed....

As for the sway, it's meant to show her walking powerfully and with confidence as she sings. She's swaying with the music! People are reading the sexy into it I think!

I agree. I watched that movie so many times and never noticed sexy walking, let alone my then 5yo dd. I loved the twist of an apparent goodie being a baddie. Disney baddies are usually so obvious. I liked that it teaches children it's not obvious at all who the baddies are.

I remember the hype about this being the first disney film in which the female characters stories didn't revolve around men romanitcally. I was interested in that. That turned out not to be true at all. I think Mulan was better for that years earlier.

Don't like the bit where Ana punches Hans. Characters in Disney films shouldn't be punching each other IMO !

How did she get her powers? No child is born with powers like that. There has to be a back story somewhere

No, she was born with them. Her parents told the trolls.

I love the idea that it's the realism that's the issue though!

I much prefer Moana anyway.. such an awesome story and songs

I love Moana but I was pretty annoyed with Maui for abandoning Moana halfway through their mission. And let's not forget how he tried to imprison her in a cave with no food as well as shoving her off her own boat several times.