To think that Elsa was actually a bit of a shit?

[noodleaddict]

She ran away leaving her land in deep winter then was prancing about on a mountaintop singing about how wonderful and free she was without giving her people a second thought.

She struck her sister twice - ok, the first was a mistake but you'd think she'd have learned her lesson by the second time.

When Anna came to ask for her help she basically told her to fuck off then created a snow monster to chase her over a precipice (after striking her, as above).

Plus who would be happy living in an ice palace alone in the mountains? How did she eat? What did she do all day?

The other bit that bothers me is the 'sexy' hip-swinging walk she does when she first puts on the frozen dress. It's totally unnecessary. Why, just why?

Possibly overthinking this.

Loonoon I hope your DD is fully recovered now.

I agree with pp that Elsa didn't know she had caused winter everywhere until Anna told her. And that anyone would be pretty damaged after repressing everything for ten years!

Yes, her poise at the ball suggests there had been many tutors allowed in to coach her, grooming her for royal duty.

I'm heartbroken for both Elsa and Anna. They had such lonely childhoods because of their parents. The last verse of 'do you want to build a snowman' makes me cry every single time I watch it.

Ok, I'm relenting slightly. Her parents' treatment of her (on the trolls' advice) was appalling, and I can't understand why Anna had to be locked up and isolated too.

It is a redeeming feature of the film that it was the sisterly love that saved both of them in the end. The sappy love story turned out not to be and the developing of something between Christophe and Anna was left nicely open.

This is why Moana is so good - no rescuing prince or sappy love story. Just a brave and courageous girl finding her true self to save her people

Oh and also, the parents are portrayed as nice and very caring - but they are also strongly devoted to duty. Going off on the voyage, because they have to, signifies this. So they are loving but misguided and, it's easy to see where Elsa gets her overwhelming sense of 'duty before love'.

I think her poise at the ball is because she is an ice queen.

The sexy hip swing is because she is coming of age as an adult and part of that is about discovering her sexuality.

You seriously can’t imagine why an ice queen would want to live in an ice palace?

I prefer her sexy hip swing to the passive warbling princesses of the past, waiting to be rescued and ravaged by a Handsome Pwince, like a M&B brainwashing romance for tots.

How Frozen Should Have Ended!

If I looked as good in a dress like that I’d probably do some sexy hip-swinging about the place too

I just want to know how she goes to the toilet in the ice palace.

@Tringley 'Oh wow, you guys are bad parents' 😂

Ok but she DID know that everywhere was covered in snow. She ran off up a snowy hill, did she not think “hang on why is this hill so snowy?”

She’s not a nice person end of.

I hate to tell you this denny, but it's snowy up mountains for most of the year.

The real question is where does she buy her thermals?

To be fair she was chased out of town with people shouting "Monster" and "Sorceress" at her and saying she had to be stopped.

So she had little choice but to get away quickly before they set on her and burned her as a witch or something.

And then she wants a bit of peace and quiet to calm down and her sister won't bugger off and there's an annoying talking snowman who won't bugger off and ANOTHER random fella her sister has palled up with. No wonder she makes the monster to get the message across for them to leave her alone

Of course she wasn't nice - the backstory with the parents showed how she ended up that way, but she couldn't have been redeemed if she didn't go off-piste for a bit first.

Plus, don't you remember when Olaf says 'oh, we're going to see Elsa? I bet she's the kindest, most generous, loveliest person...[walks into a branch]..oh, look at that, I've been impaled'. It's the perfect example of foreshadowing for primary school kids.

Anna didn't have to grow up knowing she was different and not understanding how to manage that like Elsa did.

Bit of an autistic woman not diagnosed until adulthood similarity there. So I identify with Elsa.

< i so badly want to say “ Let it go ! “ > fetches BIG coat

She ran away leaving her land in deep winter then was prancing about on a mountaintop singing about how wonderful and free she was without giving her people a second thought.

She didn't know she'd left the land in deep snow. She'd been repressed her entire life and was terrified of hurting people. Keeping her distance, or running away, was how she tried to protect others from her uncontrolled powers. Finally being free to be herself and use her talents without hurting anyone (as far as she knew), after years of repression, is worth a song and dance.

She struck her sister twice - ok, the first was a mistake but you'd think she'd have learned her lesson by the second time.

The second time was an accident too. She always lost control of her powers when she was frightened, and she was frightened pretty much all the time. When Anna told her she'd left Arundel in snow and Elsa didn't know how to fix it, she was absolutely terrified. She didn't know she'd struck Anna - look how horrified she was when Hans told her.

When Anna came to ask for her help she basically told her to fuck off then created a snow monster to chase her over a precipice (after striking her, as above).

She told Anna to fuck off because she honestly thought it was the only way she could protect her - by staying away. Since Anna wouldn't go, Elsa created the monster to MAKE her go. She was trying to keep Anna safe. Even when the monster caught them (Anna was stupid for throwing a snowball at it), all it did was scream "Don't come back!" at her. She cut the rope herself.

Plus who would be happy living in an ice palace alone in the mountains?

The Snow Queen!

How did she eat? What did she do all day?

She's got magical powers. I'd never get bored of using those, and she was probably powerful enough to find or create food by magic. She wouldn't need much.

The other bit that bothers me is the 'sexy' hip-swinging walk she does when she first puts on the frozen dress. It's totally unnecessary. Why, just why?

Because she was FINALLY FREE. She'd been repressed for years and finally she could express everything inside her, including her Disneyfied sexuality. She was shedding her old good-girl self; that justifies a sexy walk.

Characters need to be flawed. It's necessary to make them real and give them plots and stories to develop.

Possibly overthinking this.

Me too.

She was spot-on about Prince Hans and not marrying a man you just met.

Being told that fear was her enemy and to fear her powers was a totally duff move on the part of the trolls. They were supposed to be the love experts!

I love Moana - we just watched it again at half term. I don't actually have a problem with female characters getting it wrong and then figuring it out - it's nice to have a bit of humanity and depth really...

However we watched Zootopia last night, and it's just one massive Not All Men allegory.

I thought Anna summed Elsa up nicely when she said "she's a stinker"

She was essentially abused by her parents, you'd feel free too!

And she didn't know she'd started the storm.

And Anna was told to leave her alone, for her safety, but she persisted cos she's a twit.

And if I'd just conjured a sequin-covered slinky gown from my magical ice fingers I'd give my hips a quick wiggle too.

#TeamElsa

Simba was an innocent baby!

The other bit that bothers me is the 'sexy' hip-swinging walk she does when she first puts on the frozen dress. It's totally unnecessary. Why, just why?

This annoyed me. Like dressing sexy is super empowering even to 5 year olds. However being the miserable dick who lives alone in an ice palace is pretty standard superhero back story.

Best to think of it that way, superhero with a nice dress.