To think that Elsa was actually a bit of a shit?

[noodleaddict]

She ran away leaving her land in deep winter then was prancing about on a mountaintop singing about how wonderful and free she was without giving her people a second thought.

She struck her sister twice - ok, the first was a mistake but you'd think she'd have learned her lesson by the second time.

When Anna came to ask for her help she basically told her to fuck off then created a snow monster to chase her over a precipice (after striking her, as above).

Plus who would be happy living in an ice palace alone in the mountains? How did she eat? What did she do all day?

The other bit that bothers me is the 'sexy' hip-swinging walk she does when she first puts on the frozen dress. It's totally unnecessary. Why, just why?

Possibly overthinking this.

Because she is discovering herself as a strong adult after being lcoked away for years. Part of that is discovering one's "womanhood". Genuine question, what is wrong with embracing one's sexuality? Is it because it's a kid's film? If so I think it's a pretty subtle nod and therefore not problematic.

Embracing your sexuality is not putting on a sexy walk Nor does that epitomise womanhood.

FFS

Anyway rumour is in the next instalment Elsa is going to be coming out!

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/04/elsa-frozen-lesbian-cue-the-outrage

Aye I know it’s snowy up mountains but I got the impression it wasn’t particularly snowy in that area. Anna popped in to that shop just down from Elsa’s new palace and they weren’t at all prepared for the snow.
Plus she’d be able to have quite the view of the surrounding landscape from up there.

I’m just not buying her ignorance. She knew fine well what she’d done.

That's never going to happen, but that at least would be embracing her sexuality.

I'd take that anyway, I'd prefer it if Disney finally gave us a woman who wasn't interested in marrying anyone ever though or who has loads of boyfriends ice monsters but they remain background. Think it's weird we keep selling marriage to children, puts me off letting my children watching these films.

Being told that fear was her enemy and to fear her powers was a totally duff move on the part of the trolls

But the trolls didn't say to fear her powers. Grand Pabbie said fear would be her enemy. It was the King and Queen who chose to lock her away because of their fear. Elsa only ever hurt Anna because she was scared. The trolls were right, it was the human's interpretation that was the problem, it was ever thus when dealing with magical creatures.

From the article:
Now there are petitions asking Disney not to cave into the sinister lesbian agenda.’

Sinister Lesbian Agenda would make a cracking band name.

The trolls also told her to not worry that the guy she was hanging out with was "a bit of a fixer upper" and she should take that on too.

He lives with his moose, bathes irregularly, and is frankly kind of a misery guts. LTB Anna.

Elsa's dress didn't need to be quite so sexy, did it?

Anna needs to complete the Freedom Programme

I disagree. After the day I'm having at work I'd love to be alone in an ice palace!

I have some problems with Frozen, and how it craps all over its own supposed right-on-ness with the lines about chocolate and weight ("fuller") and the total failure to deal with the Disney Princess unrealistic body image issue. Olaf is freaky and Kristoff is annoying.

BUT I really relate to Elsa! And there was a thread a couple of years ago about this. I reckon if you can't see her point then you are probably not an eldest child! Anna is needy and self-destructive and expects Elsa to take responsibility for her and won't leave her alone - if i was Elsa I'd feck off up the North Mountain too. They're both the result of shitty parenting but Elsa gets to carry the can. I LOVE "Let it go" because it's about kicking off that responsibility and finally saying fuck it, I'll do what I want.

I think Sinister Lesbian Agenda are playing at Reading Festival this year Valentinesfart

My DD1 really relates to her, and I understand why reading this thread. She has Attachment Disorder and has a tricky relationship with her little sister (they're adopted and birth siblings). She's very jealous of her, because she's popular at school and very outgoing with her friends. DD1 struggles with friendships and the song 'Let it Go' really strikes a cord with her.

Both the Simba story and the Elsa story are classic stories of first children / "anointed" (self anointed?) leaders.

Both are in the wrong place in the middle section while they're off fulfilling themselves; or you could more kindly see it as a temporary learning and development place, like living as a monk for a while before your inevitable coronation, or your gap year before taking charge of Unilever or something.

Disney is a sick corporation with an obsession with leadership at the expense of collaboration; competition at the expense of cooperation. There are many more valuable ways of being than bossing people about, but really Alpha / PFB types are simply unaware of this, and huge numbers of them work at Disney.

So Elsa and Simba are both in their rightful places as born / anointed heads of a clear destiny-given hierarchy; and that's where they eventually arrive. Just as the Disney exec feels that all is well when he graduates to the corner office and has his meetings catered by the only black people in the building (who work in the basement)

(true about the Disney building by the way: corporate offices from floor 0 to 12 all full of white faces; black people in the basement where they sort catering and cleaning. And this in central London)

My son loves Frozen.

However, I always thought that if I lived all alone, on top of a mountain, in an ice palace and could make my own clothes out of magic, I'd have gone for comfy tracksuit bottoms and a hoody. Not something that required a strapless bra and heels.

"Embracing your sexuality is not putting on a sexy walk hmm Nor does that epitomise womanhood.

FFS"

Huh?

Never said a sexy walk epitomises womanhood, but a sexy walk can definitely be part of embracing one's sexuality. What a weird part of my comment to take issue with

We keep it simple. My daughter likes the dress and the magical powers from her hands. Plays well with the superhero powers from her brother.

We need more female characters with power! Star wars is due a Darth Elsa or similar, I think all the women leads have been on the 'good' side.

I'm still struggling with the whole sexy dress/walk bit. Yes, she's 'coming of age' 'finding her sexuality' but does that have to involve wearing a pretty dress and doing a ridiculous sexy walk? Why can't she discover the wonder and beauty of her powers without this? It totally dumbs down the scene.

If there was a scene with a male character deciding to rebel, to become himself, and to realise his wonderful powers, would he be also donning a nice suit and doing a gratuitous sexy swagger? I don't think so.

It's a different walk to before, a bit more confident and sashaying. Totally appropriate for the new persona she's taking on, nothing to rustle the U rating. And the dress is frigging gorgeous.

A male character probably wouldn't swing his hips but he'd do a bit more of a swagger I think...a slightly sexy male walk.

If there was a scene with a male character deciding to rebel, to become himself, and to realise his wonderful powers, would he be also donning a nice suit and doing a gratuitous sexy swagger? I don't think so.

You have just described every superhero movie ever made. Have you ever watched a Marvel movie? Even the sexy swagger though it's usually in the form of muscle flexing.

Simba was an innocent baby!

He was Hamlet.

If there was a scene with a male character deciding to rebel, to become himself, and to realise his wonderful powers, would he be also donning a nice suit and doing a gratuitous sexy swagger? I don't think so.

Of course he would. This is what happens with Clark Kent and Superman.

I agree about the superhero swagger. I don't see her walk as sexualized at all, but confident and purposeful as opposed to the earlier scurrying flight.

Yes I agree, @PoorYorick Superman definitely has a sexy swagger especially when he's with Lois Lane. Helped by the fact that Christopher Reeve was gorgeous when the movies were made.

Hollywood films always use sex appeal to sell movies anyway, so no surprise there.