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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask DH if he discussed rent with his brother

103 replies

Scabetty · 04/03/2018 21:18

I will keep this brief without drip feeding. DH bought his parents’ council house for them in Glasgow back in the 90s. His mother passed away ladt year and before she dued his brother had left his wife and moved back with his mum. His wife and teenager still live in the family home.

DH visited his brother this weekend and said he would raise subject of rent. DH doesn’t want to sell and is happy for brother to stay with a small rent.

He has just returned and I asked if he got a chance to discuss it all. He basically said it is none of my business and he will discuss it when he is ready in a few more months.

So, it is none of my business?

OP posts:
Myimaginarycathasfleas · 05/03/2018 08:39

Extremely sensible post from Coffee. I’d say go with that.

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 05/03/2018 08:41

I would modify Option 1, as PIL lived in the property rent free after the OP’s DH bought it.

OllyBJolly · 05/03/2018 09:06

Hoping no relatives are mums netters , let me put some figures into the deal our family fell out over. Also in Glasgow, and not a particularly nice part of it.

Because of the number of years she had been a tenant, my grandmother received a 70% discount on the sale. So my aunt paid £8k for a 2 bedroom flat. It was sold a few years later for £146k.

The DH will have benefitted enormously from the sale if the parents had been long term council tenants as he now has an asset that is worth way more than he paid. I'm guessing that the DD going to uni is OP's DD not the DH's so can see why the DD's costs might be less of a priority than the welfare of the brother who would have been on hand to support the elderly parents.

I'm siding with the DH here. This is not the OP's business. This looks very much like a DH family matter.

GabriellaMontez · 05/03/2018 09:17

Yanbu.

It's totally your business. Especially as you'd already discussed it.

And you were still paying for the place after you got married!

How can people say this is family business?! The op is the family!

LizzieCorday · 05/03/2018 09:18

That's exactly what the brother is doing

No he isn't. You don't understand what profit means.

Kikashi · 05/03/2018 09:21

Scabetty you are right. it was unreasonable of your husband tot ell you he was going to discuss the issue and then snap at you when you asked how things went.

Your DH was hoping his brother would start the discussion but he didn't - it makes it awkward for your DH - he doesn't want to be "seen as the bad guy" when actually asking for rent seems a reasonable thing to do. maybe he will discuss it with you more when he calms down. The situation is causing him stress and conflict.

AvoidingDM · 05/03/2018 11:00

OllyJolly is absolutely right those are the sort of figures we are taking.

I think historically Scotland had a much higher percentage of council tenants than England. It was a common thing to buy older relations houses with the deal they lived rent free.

Another thing to remember is while the cash is still invested in the house. It is still increasing in value.
The brother seems to be a bit down on his luck. Why the heck put more pressure on him and try to fleece money from him?

DD was always going to be going to uni if Granny had lived on a few years then the money would still be tied up so what difference does it make?

BedtimeTea · 05/03/2018 11:15

If it was my brother I would feel awkward and reluctant to ask him for rent. I'd probably give him the time he needs as long as he takes decent care of the place and saves for his own flat. Maybe instead they will sit down and discuss bil's plan, find out how much more he would need to save to buy a place.

Your husband may be avoiding you harping at him about money rent ect. OR may not want to discuss it because he is embarrassed his brother seems to be shirking any mention of rents. So he is avoiding discussing it? Hey doesn't like to be let down by brother. Scabetty Smile A
He doesn't need a whole house, he should rent a flat, then you guys rent out house and pay half his rent for 6 months.

BedtimeTea · 05/03/2018 11:25

Sorry sorry ! A whole sentance seems to be edited out! Here it is.
Scabetty Smile I am not saying that you harp at him in any way,

AvoidingDM · 05/03/2018 11:37

Bedtime, think what you are saying, you wouldn't charge your brother rent but you'd tell him to rent a flat instead. It's probably only a 2 bedroom house so not much bigger than a flat anyway.

I'd rather my brother stayed in it than rent it to somebody who may not look after it or pay rent on time etc. Not to mention management fees and income tax.
Another thing to consider half the contents belong to Bil.

Firesuit · 05/03/2018 11:48

No he isn't. You don't understand what profit means.

Profit is the difference between what you put in and what you get out. If the brother put in nothing and is getting accommodation worth say £500 a month, he's making £500 a month profit.

Firesuit · 05/03/2018 11:55

No it isn’t. All assets are joint in a marriage.

Completely untrue, unless the law in Scotland is very different to England.

No assets are automatically shared as a result of getting/being married.

It's divorce, not marriage, that forces assets to be shared.

saoirsesoige · 05/03/2018 11:56

Profit is the difference between what you put in and what you get out. If the brother put in nothing and is getting accommodation worth say £500 a month, he's making £500 a month profit

No.

MatildaTheCat · 05/03/2018 11:59

Remember that if he carries on living there for free and with no tenancy agreement in place he may be very difficult to shift if things change and you do want rent or to sell the property.

A tenancy agreement and a token rent should avoid this and keep things above board. Get advice though.

AvoidingDM · 05/03/2018 12:06

*No it isn’t. All assets are joint in a marriage.

Completely untrue, unless the law in Scotland is very different to England.*

Actually DH & his parents blundered.
If they had tranfered the house into his name before he married the wife would only be able to claim how much the house increased in value from the point of marriage to divorce.
However as he in the eyes of the law "inherited" it yes she could claim half. The money used to buy it would be seen as a gift if he could even prove he gave thrm it. However DBIL could also contest the will and ask for his share!!

Woolly grounds

HiggeldyPigsinblankets · 05/03/2018 12:42

its a difficult one, it does sound like either your dh didn't have the conversation with his brother or he did and it didn't go well. You can't do anything until you have had a talk with your dh, it is your business though as its family money, even if you dh started paying the mortgage before you married.

When you discuss it with dh, maybe you need to put a time limit on bil staying there and put it in writing to him the plans etc

Original poster
Scabetty · 05/03/2018 12:47

OllyB dd is our daughter, not my daughter. We have other dc too.

DH and his siblings were all offered the chance to buy the house and dh was the only one interested.

Coffee’s post: option 4 seems to be what dh was hoping for but who knows how this stands now.

Bil did not care for mil. His eldest brother and wife did her shopping and lifts. In fact he made bedroom a bedsit so didn’t sit with her when he was home. The first he knew his mum had had a fall was went the ambulance turned up as she had a panic button round her neck.

OP posts:
ExFury · 05/03/2018 12:58

Did your MIL take advice over her will? What did she leave to the other siblings? Any chance there is an issue with the will?

Shedmicehugh · 05/03/2018 13:45

He didnt cook, clean, help her to the toilet etc, etc?

Sorry I thought as she had carers twice a day she was quite frail.

Original poster
Scabetty · 05/03/2018 15:07

The carers put her food in the microwave and got her up as she had dizzy spells in the morning afaik. Eldest brother and wife did shopping. Mil did her own personal care as dh adapted her bathroom downstairs to have a seated shower.

OP posts:
LakieLady · 05/03/2018 15:41

Who pays for maintenance, insurance etc on the house? What would happen if it was flooded or there was a fire, or it needed a new boiler? Who pays the water charges and the council tax? It seems unreasonable to let BIL live there for free if the costs of running it are being paid from your income as a couple.

I think you need some sort of agreement in case BIL decides to stay there forever. It would be very messy getting him out without any paperwork. An agreement would also give BIL some protection.

Before BIL moved in, did you and DH ever discuss long term plans for the property? Did you intend to use it to generate income, to gift to your children or to sell it and use the money to buy a bigger house for your family? I think that's relevant, because if you DID have plans, they will be affected if BIL continues to stay there rent free.

However, I'm also minded that it's very sensitive and that it's only a few months since they lost their mother. BIL may still regard it as his childhood family home, or feel that DH got it for a song and he lost out. However, it seems unfair if you are subsidising him in this way.

I think you and DH need to have a calm and frank discussion about the financial and practical aspects of this arrangement.

CoffeeOrSleep · 05/03/2018 17:30

OP - if you think Option 4 is the one your DH thinks BIL wants, then perhaps the act of typing out the various ideas/options to BIL will make him say "actually I don't want to live here long term." It also will make your DH feel he's got a bit more control over the situation without having to be a bastard who says "when are you leaving or giving me money?"

But an offer of a range of options needs to come from you and DH. You've been waiting a year for BIL to say what he wants, clearly he's not going to until he actually leaves the property, which might not be for another 3 years.

CrazyDaze1 · 05/03/2018 19:07

O/P - so your brother-in-law left his wife? She remains in the family home with their teenager.

Is he planning to get a divorce (if he hasn’t done so already)?

It may well be that the financial settlement if/when b-i-l gets divorced is that his wife and teenager get to stay in the family home until the teen reaches the age of 18 or finishes secondary education. AFAIK the Court then orders that the property is sold (I’m assuming the family home isn’t a rental property).

How old is the teenager? He/she may be 18 soon or it might not be for another few years....

Meanwhile, if the b-i-l is saving to buy another place of his own whilst the wife and teenager remain in the family home, he may be charged an extra 3% stamp duty for having his name attached to two properties. He may be reluctant to move out until the family home is dealt with.

Just a few things to consider....

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 05/03/2018 19:20

The risk here is that DH doesn’t tackle BIL about rent, or how long he intends staying, BIL takes root and then the situation gets much more difficult to resolve.

Ask your DH what he would like to happen. If he’s happy to let his DB stay long term, fine, but a written agreement of some sort will protect both sides. Be prepared to go with whatever he decides, but make him aware of the pitfalls too. You have a vested interest in this.

He’s bound to be a bit territorial about the house. It may be a marital asset in law but he started buying it before you were married, plus it was his family home, not to mention his DB’s, so he won’t be seeing it that way. This is not something worth falling out over.

AnnaleeP · 05/03/2018 19:32

Can you get a lodger to share with bil?

DH may not want to tackle the subject of rent and so on, he might feel a bit awkward. However, I don't think it's entirely fair that bil gets an entire house to live in by himself.

That way the subject of rent from Bill his not so urgent and you're getting a bit of money from the house as a family.

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