Cultural misappropriation and hair

[meandthem]

Am I being unreasonable to object to ethnicity being a factor in respect of what hairstyle choices women are "allowed"? I am pissed of that it now seems acceptable for some styles to be considered cultural misappropriation. What happened to the sisterhood and feminism and women's right to do what the hell we want with our hair!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36279845 Just one example of a woman in a UK workplace being told to change her hair.

One thing that gets to me, as well - no hairdresser in my town will touch afro hair. I can walk into any hairdresser and get a haircut. I have incredibly thick hair. It kinks out and is hard to judge whether it's cut evenly. I have a double-crown. I have a cow's lick.
It takes easily 3 times as long to cut my hair as it does to cut eg my daughter's hair.
However, nobody has ever refused to cut my hair.
It's really sad.
I think every salon should have at least one hairdresser who is confident with afro hair.

I think every salon should have at least one hairdresser who is confident with afro hair

Sadly, while everyone is attacking white women over wearing "black" hairstyles, not many white stylists are going to be willing to do the specialist training required, so unless you live in a diverse area, where there are a significant number of black stylists, it's not going to happen.

I'd love to study afro hairdressing as I love learning new things about hair and 'fiddly' work such as braiding (which, according to the British Hairdressing Council is not a solely black style as you have to learn it in all hairdressing qualifications not just afro-caribbean) but while this is going on, I won't be booking myself onto any specialist afro hairdressing courses for fear of damage to my professional reputation.

I think every salon should have at least one hairdresser who is confident with afro hair

A lot of good that would do a hairdresser in my mother's village. As far as I know there is exactly one black woman in the village.

Yeah, in places where there are very few people with afro hair, what would be the point of 'every hairdressing salon' having someone trained to style it. I live in a very diverse area with a lot of hairdressers: some clearly specialise in afro hair and some in European hair but a lot seem to be mixed.

I have also noticed, at least where I live, that there is less pressure on BAME people to have 'European-style' hair; most of the schools allow braids and locs, and I have met quite a lot of black women with locs or braids in management positions.

Insideoutside. Thank you

Zoe
The enslavement of people is vile and perhaps over for Europeans/Christians in the strictest term. However, it doesn’t mean Europeans themselves were free. Slavery for many Europeans was slowly replaced with serfdoms, which bore similarities to slavery but in a different form in so much as people belonged to a plot of land and were answerable to the lord instead of a master. Therefore they couldn’t be sold. Serfdom was clearly better as serfs did have some very basic rights. But lords had extensive powers to abuse their serfs and often brutally exercised their rights. Serf is derived from the Latin “servus”, which means slave. Serfs couldn’t leave the land temporarily, get married, dispose of property (ie what they’d grown) without the permission of the lord.

In Britain, serfdom was replaced by indentured service after the peasants revolt in 1381 so at least people could eventually buy themselves out of their situation with many years of labour. Serfdom also ended at around the same time due to the Black Death in Western Europe and indentured service ended in Britain around the time of the start of slavery. Serfdom became increasingly poplar in central and Eastern Europe after it had been abolished in Western Europe and persisted in parts of Russia until 1861.

Slave comes from the word slav. The Slavic people, who inhabited large parts of Eastern Europe were a source of slaves for both east and Western Europe and in the 9th century were enslaved by Spanish Muslims.

Sadly slavery was common place and is still rife. Estimates today range from 40 million upwards.

I truly wish we could live in peace and harmony and care about eachother as everyone deserves.

I was speaking to someone today earlier about this thread. She said she stayed in a beautiful big house, which had a few rooms converted as guest house. Upon speaking to the owner, she realised they were descended from black slave owners. I cannot imagine how that makes people, who know they are descended from slaves feel.

Sadly, while everyone is attacking white women over wearing "black" hairstyles, not many white stylists are going to be willing to do the specialist training required, so unless you live in a diverse area, where there are a significant number of black stylists, it's not going to happen.

Even if everyone in the world thought white women wearing black styles was wonderful, that still wouldn't make white hair afro. Superloud is quite clearly talking about dealing with afro hair itself, not learning to braid or lock. Thus, in an area without many black women, there still wouldn't be many white stylists confident with afro hair. Because being used to white women wearing black styles is not the same thing.

It's the diversity of the area that's relevant, not how white women wear their hair.

'Superloud is quite clearly talking about dealing with afro hair itself, not learning to braid or lock. ' yep.

I feel like, if you study hair styling, you'll go to a college in a relatively diverse area, so that would surely be the time to learn.
I appreciate I am not necessarily the best-informed on this though - I only know about it from the POV of women who just wish they could get their hair styled without paying a fortune to travel to a town 2 hours away.

I've never lived anywhere where there has been nobody with afro hair.

I've lived in some tiny villages.

For me it's not so much about making a fortune because of the overwhelming demand, as it is about making sure you offer equality of service to everyone who might use your salon.

I wasn't talking about braiding or locking (I know how to do both of those and would happily do so on any hair texture), I was talking about afro hairdressing. People with textured hair do more than just braiding or locking.

I couldn't cut afro hair because I don't know how to. There are different techniques used with textured hair than caucasian hair, techniques which I have not been taught as it's an entirely separate qualification (at least in the UK). A qualification which I am not willing to do if I run the risk of being labelled racist or appropriating.

It's got nothing to do with what hair type I have, it is to do with training. My mother has caucasian, highlighted hair but she is not comfortable with bleaching or cutting caucasian hair because she is not trained to do so. I'm also not a man and have no experience in beard growing or wearing but I know how to trim, shape and care for one because I've done the relevant training.

It’s not really about depriving white women is it ? I have no desire to have cornrows thanks - it wouldn’t suit me for starters !

It’s about respecting the history and the cultural undercurrents around this issue . It’s about not making assumptions that ‘the UK isn’t racist’ when you are WHITE

Given what we have learned - how can anyone even bitch about this issue ? I have no idea .

I dont know who said that but no the uk isnt racist, There may be 'some' people who live there who are racist but no not the whole of the uk.

No just people making corrections on claims that are completely untrue bridgetoc

There are some ignorant bigots on this thread too

I wasn't talking about braiding or locking (I know how to do both of those and would happily do so on any hair texture), I was talking about afro hairdressing. People with textured hair do more than just braiding or locking.

Right, but in that case what's the link between people stopping attacking white women for wearing black styles and hairdressers then being willing to do the specialist training for afro hair? You're talking about not wanting to be seen as racist, but if a person is a hairdresser in an area that's not diverse, all the encouragement in the world still isn't going to make that worth the investment of time and money if there aren't any/many black clients. White women's hairstyles have nothing to do with that cost/benefit calculation.

Totally agree.

Prettylovely, good to know that as well as no institutional racism there is no institutional sexism ‘because the uk isn’t sexist’ either, I presume.

Black women's hair is political? I've heard it all now.

Hair is hair, who cares about such things?

Well seeing as when you google ‘politics of black womens hair’ you get a staggering 6,180,000 results .....

But yeah ! It’s not an issue . Not at all

In areas where are there are black people living, but no afro-caribbean hair salons, such as where Popping lives and where I live, white stylists are going to be reluctant to study afro hairdressing for fear of being labelled racist or appropriating whilst cultural appropriation is still the hot topic, especially as white women wearing braids seem to be the biggest issue.

I seem to be having issues making myself understood, so if that is not clear enough, sorry, but I give up.

Obviously, stylists in areas where there aren't any people with 4C hair wouldn't bother as there'd be no benefit.

Black women's hair is political? I've heard it all now.
Oh good, does that mean you've learnt something...

I dont know who said that but no the uk isnt racist, There may be 'some' people who live there who are racist but no not the whole of the uk.
Have you talked to Doreen Lawrence? Have you spoken to any of the government enquiry and advisory bodies? Have you seen the membership of Britain First pages on Facebook, and their ilk?

I don't believe that a workplace that would allow dreadlocks on a white person but not a black person. Where the racism exists seems to be that some workplaces do not like natural black hair whilst they don't mind natural white hair (although many white people also spend hours straightening their hair!). This obviously needs to be changed. Black women should be able to wear their hair however they want in the workplace (although I don't think dreadlocks are ever going to be a 'professional' look on anyone, black or white).

I disagree that white people wearing braids is cultural appropriation. If it is, then eating curry or listening to Jazz would be as well.

Also to be honest I think we need to get away from the whole slavery thing. Of course it's still a big part of black American history, as is the racial segregation that went on for so long afterwards. But most white people in the UK and most black people in the UK too, have not had anything to do with it. For those that are not aware, there were huge swathes of the white population in the UK that were little better than slaves. They were forced to work long hours in dangerous and back breaking jobs, even children as young as 5 were down the mines/in factories for 12 hours a day. This was going on until just over 100 years ago. The effects are still visible in the deprivation and poverty that affect parts of Northern UK. This was the reason that so many fled to America! If course there has been racism and discrimination against black people but don't imagine it has been great for white either. Our politicians are very good at 'divide and rule' - convincing poor blacks and whites to blame each other for their problems, rather than the rich elite in our country who exploited both groups.

I disagree that white people wearing braids is cultural appropriation. If it is, then eating curry or listening to Jazz would be as well.
There is a difference between appropriation and assimilation.

carefreeeee No. You cannot compare the white working classes to the prejudice suffered over hundreds of years (including slavery) in the UK.

Can you appropriate something that was used by many cultures and races throughout history, though?

For as long as people have had hair on their heads, there have been braids of varying descriptions. There's even evidence that ice age people braided their hair.

Only recently has it been thought of as something only black people do/did. It's more fashionable in black culture because of the protectiveness of the style but it's been around since the Ice Age (literally).

Can you appropriate something that was used by many cultures and races throughout history, though?
Yes.