...to have said no?

[BabsPym1]

7 year old DS is very wilful. Says no a lot. We've had thick snow but easing up. He wanted to wear shorts to school...it escalated into a row where I snapped, shouted, he cried. So I said fine. Then he said no to getting ready in the time frame I asked him to. Another mini row. Then he wanted to wear a particular pair of boots to school, take his school shoes, and two pairs of footie boots for his club (not knowing if it would be outside or inside). I refused, saying 4 pairs of shoes to school is too much, especially when he's got form for losing everything.

So I'm saying no. He's saying no. We're arguing. It's horrible. He's saying he hates me, I'm the worst mum.

And I'm thinking, should I have just said fine, and avoided the confrontation?

Honestly, I really have no idea how to avoid these spats without capitulating.

Ha ha OP, you and I sound alike. This was exactly what it was like when my DS was 7. :-D I don't do zen, I just do boundaries that affect me.
I think its a case of just seeing things differently. He would have thought he would have won by wearing the shorts, but he would have been freezing, and that's the important bit. Next time would have been much easier to get him in the trousers, or not, but they are his legs that are cold, not yours. He had to feel the consequence of his choice.
A lot of 7 year olds are happy to let mummy make all the decisions, some of them will go to hell in a handcart before they let someone else have the control.
You don't have to have the same attributes as his dad; your son is benefitting from two parents with two different skill sets. Don't run yourself down; you're doing a fab job by the sound of things.

If your child likes to feel 'in control', you could give considered 'options'. E.g. "DS, would you like to wear this pair of trousers or this pair?"
You get to control a suitable clothing choice (for example) and he gets to exercise his own choice (of sorts)!

He's probably pushing the boundaries because you're not consistent. Over time, the more you say no (and mean it/follow through) the more he'll respect your choice.

If you threaten consequences, make sure you follow up on them.

"I get the fear that he'll grow up and I'll be his first therapy session. His crazy, red tempered mother whom he did battle with. Not like his funny, easy going dad."

The thing is though, he could end up there because of his mother who always argued and shouted and then gave in. You can't let him shout you into backing down because you want to still be his friend, you have to be a parent first.
When you say his dad does things differently, what does he do? Could you try and use his system if that seems to work better?

You're not a shit mum but there are battles you don't need to have. If I find myself losing perspective, I ask myself, 'is this the hill I want to die on?' Does it really matter if his legs are freezing? Or if he's carrying four pairs of shoes?

I relate to the comment about feeling like he's a barrister. I have a DC like that. What is non-negotiable is that he has to accept first responses. I don't want him thinking he can wear people down (because he is very good at doing that)I don't want him to be the child or adult that doesn't take no for an answer and rides roughshod over others' boundaries. So, I will make it clear 'this is going to stay my answer no matter how many times you ask' then walk away.

Would you really let your 7 year old wear shorts in the snow?! In our school, they'd be given a pair of warm trousers from the lost property box.

I don't know if this will help but it helped me so I'll post it anyway.

Your emotions escalate because you are trying so incredibly hard to do the right thing and get conflicted because he wants something stupid and your instinct is to say yes. Then you feel like you should be taking control so you get angry with him for putting you in such a position over something stupid.

The more you angst and agonise the worse it will feel next time because you are hyper reacting to essentially something small.

Try and plan the night before.
Try and recognise that it really is small stuff and just as you can make a mountain out of a molehill over his clothes, you can make it worse by making a mountain out of a molehill over your reaction.

Yesterday we left the house at 5.00am in the freezing cold and it wasn't until later that I realised my DD didn't have her school coat. She's 15 for fuck sake. I did a massive internal eye roll and chose to not react (other than 'well done - you'll be cold today then you fucking numpty')

Don't analyse and personality match and try and find reasons why your children being dickheads is annoying. It just is and sometimes you will support them, sometimes you will eyeroll and sometimes you will get angry and shout. They'll be fine.

Yep. I've done it many a time. Once you've told them a thousand times they will be cold, and they battle and battle and battle. They want to be stubborn, let them be. Not my bloody legs, not my problem.

I've not read the full thread, but I would say pick your battles, and be consistent. Maybe discuss the issue together with the pros and cons before you make a 'ruling' and be reasonable about things, consider his point of view too, but once you've decided, then you have to stick to it - once you give in on one thing, then the arguing will happen every time you don't agree.

Sometimes it is really hard, but you have to be the adult

I've found with my very passionate 10 year old, that setting down some boundaries when everything is calm can really help.
So we talked about the morning routine, and he agreed that if he refuses, or has to be told 3 or more times ( brush your teeth, put on your socks etc), that he will lose screen time. He had actually stuck to it, which I'm amazed about. It's about him being in the decision making process I think.

greyhound our school uniform is shorts in all weather. We actually don't have the option to wear trousers. I thought it was mad at the beginning but it has proven to me that DCs can have their legs out in all weathers (including snow!) and they're fine.

'is this the hill I want to die on? - THIS IS MY NEW MANTRA

I think the shorts thing is a bit of a red herring. The school allows shorts, I don't usually care about him wearing shorts. Today I didn't. And probably, I shouldn't have.

It's about using this as an example to crack open and learn (what I already knew tbh) which is that I'm being inconsistent. I need to be firm without being shouty.

I'd like to say that some posters have been quite unhelpful - not nice for OP. It's a bit mean to be so clever-dickish to someone who's at the end of her tether.
I would have let him wear the shorts - as you say natural consequences - then maybe he wouldn't have started wittering about the boots - who knows. good luck Op child rearing can be the pits sometimes!

I think the less you say no the better - some things just aren't worth fighting. If your DS wants to wear shorts, let him - what's the worst that can happen? Hopefully he'll learn his lesson. My DS never wanted to wear a coat to school and though I insisted on him carrying a light coat in his back pack he never wore it. He still doesn't feel the cold as an adult.

I was this child! I, quite rightly, now have one who is MUCH worse.

I would suggest changing the conversation. I totally accept about putting your foot down/taking control but I think with this sort of personality it just adds fuel to the fire. Its less picking your battles, more illusion.

I would rarely do anything if told to, I had to be 'asked' and I encountered parents and teachers who tried to discipline me into breaking and being obedient, but it never happened, I just dug my heels in further and as you've said it would escalate and escalate. Being told NO was infuriating and being pushed just made me push back harder and say something even worse to 'win'.

Now I deal with the same thing. I save NO for occasional use, because I find that more effective and creates less of an argument. I would have repeatedly said its very cold out, all that ice, rather you than me, stand outside and see what you think etc. We usually get to the right place before having to actually experience the consequences. If he's as bright as you say, he very soon will start having a common sense approach rather than beating you by freezing,

Try different techniques with your DS, see what you can cope with and he responds well to.

my son is the same. I don't discuss my decision with him. I am the adult when I say know it's no. If he screams I live the room until he has come down. Have you sit him down and explain that to him outside of a confrontation?

DD(4) LIkes to have the last word/argue but i never get to number 3 let alone 5 when i count to 5. She knows when to hop to it. By choosing my battles i will let her ie. choose hat, gloves and hair stuff, go easy on the stuff which doesn't matter (painted nails/scribbled on body not ideal but doesn't matter to me) but the coat and shoes are my decision. I suppose it gives her autonomy over many areas of her life and she knows not to argue over the (boring!) things as i won't budge sn inch.
I'm alao quite happy to hand out consequences as required. for you OP. It's bloody hard sometimes.

I was also this child. Worse as a teenager, but the really obstinate child of three. Gave my parents hell. Karma, I guess. But interestingly, I'm the most independent, strong, bloody-minded but in a positive way adult out of all of us. Since I left home (young), I've barely needed my parents for a thing while the others are forever leaning on them.

Sasha - I do agree that a straight no is like a match to dry wood with my DS. Interesting you are like me and have a similar DC! how old is you DC and are they doing ok with your handling of them/their bheaviour/refusals?

Thanks for all the flowers and nice words and advice, guys. It really helps when you're in the ditch

I have nothing to add except this picture I took at Farringdon station this lunchtime..

That silly git's legs are bright red! Not the pleasantest of sights.

My children wore shorts all year round, and we get lots of snow where we live. Their bodies, their choice. They're tough.

He had good reasons to want to take four pairs of shoes in, so why couldn't he? So long as he can carry them all and has somewhere to store them at school I don't see a problem.

I don't think this is something to be fighting over.

My postman had his legs out this morning , I suppose some people just don't give a single fuck don't feel the cold.

OP, he's pushing boundaries to see what he can get away with. Pick your battles, start saying NO more often but occasionally let him have his own way to learn the hard way. Shorts today was not one of those occasions.

Don't feel bad for setting rules and boundaries. You're the grown up and he learns appropriate behaviours from the examples you set. The more consistent you are and the less you back down it will eventually sink in that it isn't worth arguing. It isn't easy but it will get easier!

Hope you are feeling better after reading the thread and that you have got some ideas of what you might do to help.

We all have our crappy parenting moments and I’m not sure I would believe anyone who said they didn’t. Kids are really annoying sometimes 😂. The one thing that I think I was pretty good at was being really calm and consistent. I did have times when I shouted at them but with four kids very close in age I think it would take a saint not to but generally I was even keeled. One of the biggest things that helped us was the fact we had clear punishments. Basically the punishment would be no computer/console time for the day for less serious behaviour esculating to a week long ban for very serious bad behaviour OR if they complained or spoke back about getting a one day ban. This punishment regime worked for my kids as they all love computer games.

I’d give an immediate day ban violence or something substantial but would generally give two clear warnings before they would get a day ban. The kids knew the score and while they would all get day bans from time to time I never once had to give a week ban. The thing was is that they knew and I knew I’d have no issue giving a week ban if I needed to. Considering we started with this when they were very little and that they are now adults I think that’s quite an achievement. I know every child is different though and just because it worked for us doesn’t mean it would work for other people. I think the fact that my kids were particularly keen on computer games from a young age really helped too. Some kids wouldn’t care as much but might have something else that they would feel strongly about.
BTW I was also super strict on how long they were allowed to play on their computers and consoles so computer time was something that was highly valued by the kids. I’m sure if I’d let them play for hours and hours they wouldn’t have been as worried about it getting banned.

Are you able to manage your temper? If not then I’d imagine it might be difficult when your DC are teens. If you can’t control yourself then I’d worry that it would give the kids the impression that they don’t have to control theirs.

That’s the longest post I’ve ever posted. 😂😂😂