...to have said no?

[BabsPym1]

7 year old DS is very wilful. Says no a lot. We've had thick snow but easing up. He wanted to wear shorts to school...it escalated into a row where I snapped, shouted, he cried. So I said fine. Then he said no to getting ready in the time frame I asked him to. Another mini row. Then he wanted to wear a particular pair of boots to school, take his school shoes, and two pairs of footie boots for his club (not knowing if it would be outside or inside). I refused, saying 4 pairs of shoes to school is too much, especially when he's got form for losing everything.

So I'm saying no. He's saying no. We're arguing. It's horrible. He's saying he hates me, I'm the worst mum.

And I'm thinking, should I have just said fine, and avoided the confrontation?

Honestly, I really have no idea how to avoid these spats without capitulating.

I think it wouldn't be natural to not feel like a shit mum every so often. None of us can make the right call every single time, however much we want to be the perfect parent.
Don't beat yourself up. You need to aim to be a "good enough mum" and you obviously are.

OFGS

Let him wear shorts if he wants to! Just put a pair of trousers in his bag just in case he gets too cold.

Let him take 4 pairs of shoes if he wants to! Just make sure he has a large enough backpack to store them all in.

Life's too short to micromanage things that are not life or death. You need a sense of humour!

Let him learn from experience and don't say "I told you so!"

I have an 8 year old DS and am just not involved in him getting dressed, I may suggest he wears tousers or ask if he really needs to take all shoes but thats it, hes older enough to sort himself for school I cant imagine it ever get to the point of an arguement.
With the shoes, he didnt know if football was going to be inside or outside so surely he needs to take both boots anyway?

We have phases - 'shouty phases' which are shitty. They aren't daily by any means, not even weekly, but they happen enough for me to see patterns.

I need to step back, keep calm, keep repeating myself. I find it so hard. He will go on and on and on. He's like a Barrister in the making (no offence to any Barristers reading this). I just get frazzled.

Problem is that he knows I'm weak. DH gets the same behaviour but because he handles it differently, it doesn't end up in the same crap place.

I wouod also say that he knows that telling you he hates you, you’re the worst mum is getting at you. That you actually believe him when he says that.

Please remember that he doesn’t believe a word of what he is saying there. Not in the way you understand it.
My answer to that has always been ‘ Really??? That’s a shame. But please know I will always love you’. That’s it.

Yes, thank you Married3Children. I appreciate this. I need to remember this. I turn his words on me and it just makes me want to cry after he's said it and after how badly I've behaved/shouted.

Babs you are not weak. You THINK you are weak, which is very different.
If you were that weak, you wouldn’t be spending so much time trying to make him do what you think is the best for him.
It’s more about redirecting your energy and your strength to the right place. But you have plenty of it, believe me!

And funnily enough, I had a conversation about the whole 'shorts in the snow' thing with my teenager and his mate yesterday. Apparently there was a competition going between them about who could stick wearing their shorts the longest (surely my son must have won that one!). His mate told me that sometimes you came into school saying 'my mum made me wear my trousers' so you didn't lose your place in the competition...but sometimes it was just because you were cold :-D The amount of worry I had over shorts and they were just having a competition. :-D

Ear plugs and tune him out.

I have bellowed at my ranting little barrister to "SHUT. UP. NOW" before.

Which is a natural consequence, IMHO. YOu cannot rant and complain at someone and expect them to just sit and take it.

The thing is, once he's complied, it really doesn't matter what he thinks about the matter. You've done what was needed.

I had some degree of success with rewarding pleasant mornings with a single giant chocolate button, ceremoniously handed to anyone who is ready to leave by 5 to eight, and not to anyone who's not ready

Battles - pick them.

You had three battles this morning. Did you need to have them?

The shorts - so what if he wears shorts, he gets cold and that's a lesson learned

Timeframe - I accept that things need to be done by say 8:30, it's much easier if these things are done in a fun competitive way if you are able. My daughter is much faster if I say something like "I bet you can't get dressed in 30 seconds" or "I bet you can't brush your teeth for a whole two minutes standing on one leg"

Shoes - if he can carry them, he can take them. If he loses them then he has one less pair of shoes, don't replace them.

It's always about picking your battles. I also apologise to my daughter if I've been short with her because of my grumpiness or my stress. I know that when I'm already cross, seeming innocuous things my daughter does can make me cross which makes her cross, which makes me more cross etc... it's easy for things to escalate.

It seems that you've got into a cycle of battles - try to take a step back a bit. Easier said than done, I know, but really worth it.

omfg he doesn't hate you

I think you're applying adult attributes to a fairly small child.

He's ANGRY with you. He FEELS liek he hates you. Let him have that feeling, because it's actually not relevant.

Show him you are strong enough to withstand his strong feelings, and he will learn to withstand his strong feelings himself.

Instead of crying and being upset when he says no to you and hates you, tell him "It really doesn't matter. I have a job to do, and that is to get you to school on time and properly dressed. You don't get to stop me doing that job, now move or you're going to get told off at school for being late."

LET him rant, and seethe, and wail. He's clearly a person who feels his emotions very strongly, so allow him to. Don't try to reason and cajole his emotions away - it won't work. Let him have them, let him get though them, and in the meantime you have to be the adult, and remain in control of the situation, because that's what he needs. It's not what he WANTS, but he needs it.

I had a massive fight with my 4 year old this morning because she was refusing to dress properly. We screamed at each other. We both had a sulk and then we made up on the way to nursery.
Sometimes mums are crap. Sometimes kids are crap. Sometimes we are all crap and the world keeps turning.....

Errr.... I wouod t be putting what has happened there as ‘behaving badky’ Or being a shit mum.

Or we have all being shitty parents tbh.

Because we all learn about what is working for our dcs as we go along. And they have also have the knack to change as they are growing up so what worked when they were 3 yo doesn’t when they are 7yo or 10 yo (disgraceful really ).
So we all are all doing a lot of trial and errors.

Would it help if you were writing down ALL the things you are doing right? Not just the getting dressed or him doing exactely what he needs to do. But all the all of life's admin, make everything happen for us as a family . I’m sure you will find you are doing a hell of a lot things right too (and a hell of a lot of things that your DH isn’t doing but are just as important to your ds well-being, eg cooking a healthy ish meal).

I would also schedule some time with your ds to just play and have fun. And if there is still some washing up to do or of the house needs cleaning, send your DH to do it instead. But keep that nice time together, just the two of you. It will make thenot as nice time easier too.

Sometimes mums are crap. Sometimes kids are crap. Sometimes we are all crap and the world keeps turning

Exact;y!

Could you try agreeing on the outfit the night before? Discussing what will be needed (thinking of PE/football/uniform/snowy weather) (I agree with PPs that reducing any choices to only 2 is good)

We would lay the clothes out on the chair or floor as if an invisible kid were wearing them - right down to pants socks (and shoes if you allow them in the bedroom) at 7 your DS might find this a nice game

I used to do that with my children so at least we moved the battle of wills to the night before when we were less pressured/grumpy. We would go to bed feeling we were ready.

DS (12) still needs guidance but DD is now 20 and dresses herself sensibly.

I hope you feel more confident OP. Just because your DH's parenting may look comparatively effortless, it doesn't follow that you are somehow second best.
Out of interest how do you think DH would have handled that scene better?

What if you plan the night before what DS is going to wear. Offering him some perceived choice increases the likelihood of compliance. "DS, please put out your grey trousers or your black trousers".
Whether he wants to wear shorts or not, getting ready on time is not optional!

Keep calm and walk away if you feel your temper rising. Stress changes our tone of voice.

PS Hide flip flops!

Oh OP, parts of what you are saying so hit home with me. Me and my DS1 are both so so headstrong and both of us stubborn. Don't knock it out of him, it will really work for him one day, it really will...and it works for me too. Mine's got a will of iron when it comes to his school work. He will not accept second best. He is also the most stoic people I know. I would say embrace what he is and trust that it will work for him one day. You are not a shit parent but it is hard parenting a headstrong one. But for God sake, don't give in. I did find that looking for the humour in the situations worked. Mine always, always backed himself into a corner and the trick was to help him find a way out.

This is how a conversation used to go in my house:
Me: 'Go and get ready for tennis'.
DS: 'In a minute
Me: Go and get ready for tennis, you'll be late.
Ds: In a minute.
ME: GO AND GET BLOODY DRESSED!!!!!

Now its more like:
'DS, let me know when you are ready for a lift to tennis. I'll sit here and have a nice cup of tea. But if it gets to 6.30, you'll have to walk as I'm off out to the shops.'
And sit and have a nice cup of tea and don't say a bloody word. If they're late, they're late. If they're too late and miss the class, they miss the class. Not my problem. No arguing, just stick to what you've said.

Employ a cuddle and a laugh. When my 7 year old starts being difficult I tend to grab her and squeeze her and tell her I love her. She often shoves me off grumpily but if I pull a few faces she'll end up laughing. Once the tension is broken I can then normally ask her again and she'll do what I want with limited issue. Otherwise we'd end up yelling at one another a lot. That and ridiculous threats. They normally make her laugh and she'll then do as I ask. I say - "can you go have a wee before you get dressed for me please". She says "I don't need a wee". I say "go put your bum on that loo or I'll chop your toes off". She laughs, tension broken and normally she will head off happily to wee. This of course only works if your kid is totally confident that you won't chop their toes off / boil them in oil / lock them in the shed or the other 101 awful things I threaten mine with daily. If the toe removal threat fails the cuddle and a kiss and a tickle will normally work just fine. I rarely shout (although she does know that when I use my "mummy voice" she had better do as she is told and the threat of returning home with no treat is not idle!)

Oh and "I hate you" doesn't mean anything! He loves you. You are his mum. Apparently I ruined mine's life by getting a dog (she wanted the bloody dog!) I am the worst mum ever. She doesn't love me anymore. all said at one point or another and never ever meant. I always reply with an I love you.

Teebee - that former conversation, with a few more back and forths is what today was like. What some - not all, as I have made progress - our 'tricky' moments are like. I need to become more zen. Leave it to him to do or not do it but bear the consequences.

My DH would have been calmer, prob let him wear shorts, which would have made battle no 2 easier as DS would have had a 'win'.

DH is probably less neurotic than me, has a much more different personality to DS, whereas we are quite alike.

But DH couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and DS has a great, rich life because of my strengths, so I guess it takes all sorts.

I think you're getting a hard time from some posters here. There are days when things just seem to
spiral into negativity.

Your DS seems to be at an age where he can take more responsibility but equally is frustrated at situations where he doesn't have control.

I would recommend the book how to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk.

It has helpful practical solutions to do less talking with more impact. Applies to younger kids and teens.

No sounds Iike a trigger word for your son - maybe during a calm time talk to your son about how that word makes him feel. Try and unpick what is going on for him and together come up with strategies about how to avoid these confrontations. If you can get out of house to have conversation even better - over an ice-cream or something.

But often we don't need to say no eg 'I need you no wear trousers today so you don't get cold/hurt in snow. What do you think?'

'I am worried about your shoes/boots getting lost at school. What do you think?'

I don't think boundaries equates to authoritarian parenting. Some kids will never respond to this.

I know some people will think I'm being wishy-washy but I think it's worth a try to reset dynamic between you two.

And try not to hold a grudge, if it was a bad morning don't refer to it if a new issue arises in the afternoon. This will just compound feelings and reactions for both of you.

It doesnt make you a bad mum to get to the point where you have to say "I'm not going to argue about this any more, I said no and thats the end of it".

Its not required that they agree that your decision is the best one, only that they do it. Of course, its always better if they do agree, but its not required even if they do end up sulking or shouting about it. They'll live.

I get the fear that he'll grow up and I'll be his first therapy session. His crazy, red tempered mother whom he did battle with. Not like his funny, easy going dad.

I'm joking. Sort of.

Plus his my only child and I want to be close to him etc

I see my SIL behaving like this. She has ended up with a very spolit brattish daughter who says no a lot.

Its all about consequences. Let him wear shorts. I wouldn't even put long trousers in . Let him see what happens if he wears them. Having said that might be one of those people who doesn't feel the cold but never mind. He will know soon enough.

And for those whose kids mess around before school. Warn them the school will speak to them if they turn up late. Let them decide whether this is something they wants to handle. He wont of course be able to defer to you. If required tell the teacher you are doing this and probably they can then position. I bet if the consequences are for them to suffer you might find a change occurs...

I think you need to think of what you mean by 'strict'. Because capitulating, rowing and backing down isn't 'strict'.

You need to make a decision and be firm. Make the decision reasonable (oh, it should be so easy!) and the consequences for arguing or disobeying equally reasonable, enforceable and consistent and he may well start toeing the line.