Swimming changing

[hunkadunka]

My DC mentioned today that when they go swimming with school, they are supervised, they said 'watched', in the single sex changing rooms by a TA of the opposite sex. DC says it makes them feel uncomfortable. They are year 4.

Fairly obviously, I'm talking about a group of boys, being supervised by a female teacher. We both feel that a male member of staff would never be allowed to do this in the girls' changing room. There are no male TAs, so no possible male supervisor. However, again, I feel that if the sexes were the other way around, it would be deemed so unacceptable, as to be sorted in some way. There are male members of pool staff, but nothing to do with the school.

My DS knows about male privilege, and that girls would be more concerned about men in the changing rooms because our society sexualises young women, and we have a problem with male violence. We genuinely have these conversations. So I've explained that this is why it's seen as less of an issue having a woman in the boys' changing rooms. However, he feels that he and the other lads would feel more comfortable with male supervision.

Is my DS BU?

I spent several years supervising primary school swimming changers. The male-female staff ratio did often not allowed a man to supervise changers. We were typically two female teachers taking 38 year five children to the pool by coach (no TAs as they were needed back at base).

FWIW we both hated supervising both sexes! Whoever was in charge of the boys would stand outside the closed door of the communal changing room, occasionally opening the door a few cm to chivvy people along. I tried to hurry the boys without looking in their direction, but sometimes I had to look to put an end to messing around.

The whole situation wasn't ideal and individual changing cubicles would have been better.

Your 9 year old knows all about make privilege? You’ve created this problem yourself.

I don't know what you expect the school to do. Just tell your son to get changed under a towel, none of his business what the girls do or don't do. Honestly, what a lot of fuss over nothing.

the male teacher and TAs at the school my children attend all supervise children getting changed for PE in the classroom as they keep their pants on.

but at the swimming changing they had cubicles most of the time. IF they were in the communal changing room there were no teachers in the room. They stood at the door and issued instructions or responded to requests from help outside. They would knock before entering if someone shouted for help.

Where I work we ensure the same sex staff member for changing from secondary age. We try and do it before but don’t have enough available men.
It’s imprtant to have someone in there not only for supervision, but you are advised when watching children change to spot signs of abuse, e.g. bruises etc... that may be covered up when in normal clothes.

EllieMae yes!! I've never known a 9 year old dry himself properly anyway so I'm sure they can manage under a towel. I doubt the supervising staff are 'watching' them get changed, just a presence to help find lost socks and stop the inevitable messing around.

... and if your son described a male teacher as 'watching them get changed' - a pretty emotive statement, then I think the comments would be very different.

No a teacher of the opposite sex should not be in the changing room.

It would be uncomfortable for the girls and uncomfortable for the boys.

They Should have figured something out even of it was roping in a member of the leisure centre staff.

Giles I would be really uncomfortable telling my son that having a male stranger (pool staff) in the changing room with him was preferable to a known female.

Would swimming staff be CRB checked to the level TAs are?

I'm a primary school teacher. I was told when training not to watch the children changing. When changing in the classroom I mark books or similar. When I taught Year 4 and we went swimming the girls changed in twos or threes in cubicles and the boys were in one large changing room. I didn't have a male member of staff so I would stand holding the door open a bit with my foot, which allowed me to hear what was going on inside and I could hurry them along, but I was clearly not looking. I'd have a conversation with the other adults outside the room. The gap wasn't big enough for anyone to see any of the changing boys unless you actually poked your head around the door. I feel that was a good compromise.

There are other ways to supervise than just standing watching. It may be the TA hasn't been told how to supervise so the teacher should be taking charge. I would say something to the teacher TBH. It probably means nothing that the TA is watching but it's making sometime feel uncomfortable and that's why we're told not to watch. Well, that and protecting ourselves against allegations.

We have a male volunteer, DBS checked.
Parents complained!

At our school, for both PE and when they go swimming, a teacher or TA waits outside the classroom or changing room whilst the children are getting changed. It’s not ideal, we’ve had issues with horseplay when changing after swimming in Y5 (one boy known for bullying whipping the other boys with his towel and so on) but it seems the best way to protect their privacy.

spaniel

It's ideal for that kind of thing at dds school the male teachers are kinda kept in the juniors and supervised the boys while one of the tas or the female teacher supervised the girls for pe.

Dd had a male teacher for the term she did swimming and they just took a TA. To watch the girls.

But they also take the care taker on all the trips too to ensure at least one male

Whilst I agree with your argument, I'd also want to build resilience in my child in an imperfect world (not enough male carers, not enough cubicles) by telling him to change under a towel. Just as I would a girl who is self-conscious, for whatever reason, changing in communal changing rooms.

"missyB1 And that is one reason I'm reticent to raise it with the school. The answers may well be 'well, we can't take the swimming', or leaving them unsupervised, and the subsequent carnage."

So tell your son this.

Just tell him to change with his back to the TA or with a towel round him, that's what we did at school.

And tell him to get a grip. I'm sorry but I doubt he is really desperately uncomfortable, and I doubt the TA is "watching", more just hovering and hurrying them up.
It sounds like more of a case of "but the girls don't so why should I" , so tell him the girls will undoubtedly be getting changed under towels also, no matter who is supervising. And tell him that some children have real problems!
Sorry, but this has just really wound me up! This is why schools just stop trying to do any sort of activity.

You do realise that not all people are perverts

It's not about assuming people are perverts for heaven's sake.

There cokes a time usually around 8 onwards where people are just not comfortable changing around other people who share the same body.

It's perfectly normal and all this assuming there is something wrong with them or they are being dramatic or telling them.theor feelings don't matter because it's inconvenient is really problematic.

The school have sorted something out they would have had to of it was a male teacher and the girls.

Not because they are perverts but because it's just what you do

Who don't share

Thing is, in primary you are very unlikely to be in the situation where you need a man to go in with the girls as it is predominantly female heavy. So that's not really a valid arguement.

I think most people are fine with a woman in with the boys as in our society women are perceived to be in the caring roles. When I first started teaching I had to go in the boys changing as there was no male to do so. Never any complaints, but definitely needed someone to supervise 30 9 and 10 year olds! Some needed a little help changing too and organising their stuff.

Stopped reading as soon as you mentioned "male privilege". Sorry.

"However, again, I feel that if the sexes were the other way around, it would be deemed so unacceptable, as to be sorted in some way"

So suggest something. Better still, get your assertive, articulate, very clued up year 4 son to suggest something

I was trying to remember what happened back in the dark ages when I was 9. We weren't supervised - there was a girls room and a boys room, we were supposed to shower but rarely did, and if we weren't changed in a reasonable time frame, the (male) pe teacher would shout through, and after about 5 minutes come in. By this point we might be faffing around with shoes / hair, there was no-one refusing to get changed quick enough to avoid being seen by the pe teacher. This was a middle school though, so better resourced than a lower / primary. I'm not convinced 9 yos need supervision to get dressed, it's more about behaviour management, isn't it?

love yes there is a big behaviour management issue but there will always be one or two children who need support.