To ask WOHM mums about your working hours?

[GinnyLovesGin]

Yeah. Specifically mums.

I’m about to go back to work after my second stint of maternity leave. DD2 will be 9 months old and joining DD1 (aged 3) in a private nursery. I work 3 days per week in a really stressful job. I say three days but before I went on mat leave, I was working at the kitchen table every night after DD1 went to bed, attending seminars etc in the evenings etc. Basically I had a full time workload and three days in the office. I’m a solicitor in a huge firm. It is competitive as fuck.

I like my job but it is the kind of job where, to get anywhere with it, I need to study it, work late nights (client work as well as CPD/business development) and basically eat, sleep and breathe it. It isnt massively compatible with family life (if only someone had told me that five years ago). No flexible working etc.

I don’t feel great about having to work at all (I don’t think I’m SAHM material but in turn I feel bad about that), but we need both our salaries. We could exist on DHs salary but we wouldn’t have any disposable income and I want to be able to give the girls things like a nice house in a good area (where we are now, good schools etc) experiences, holidays etc. Equally, i don’t want to work and be considered mediocre or shit at my job (but my girls will always come first and I won’t make any apologies for that). So I feel like if I’m going to work then I need to try hard and do as well as I can. I want to succeed. And in turn I feel guilty about this.

My husbands work is a little more family friendly and he is usually home around six so if I need to do late nights etc then he’s there and he can (and does) do the nursery pick up, get dinner/bath/bed sorted as well as I can. We don’t have much other support so we are lucky in that respect.

I guess what I’m asking, very inarticulately, is how bad should I feel about this? I feel horrible crippling guilt. Like I know they have DH but I’m their mum and I should be there.

I’m just looking for thoughts and experiences I guess. I don’t know how to balance it.

I am full time solicitor but self employed so it’s under my control. I can and do turn down work.

I was freelance for 12 years. Did just about 2 days when they were young.

It is good to be back full time. Even better that the children walk through the door at 3.30 and pop up for a chat about our days.

My advice is to keep all hobbies very close to home and cultivate your neighbours. Do not sign your 5 year old up for ice skating 15 miles drive from home if you plan to have your career back when she is 11. Take her to dance in the next street. Find musical instrument teachers who will come to the house. Live as close as possible to your chosen secondary. Good luck.

Don't waste time and energy feeling guilty. If your DH is looking after them that's absolutely fine. You are both your DDs parents and whichever one of you is with them that is fine. Mothers don't have magical skills that fathers don't have.

DH and I have both worked PT. When the kids were small we both did 4 days a week which worked really well. Now they are all at school we both work 90% which is 3 full days each and 2 short days so we can do school pick up 4 days a week. DH works in the town we live in so can cover all school assemblies etc and does the school run in the morning. Although my boss is quite happy for me to work from home when I want so I can do that. I do sometimes end up WFH when I shouldn't be but my feeling at the moment is that my current boss doesn't believe my job can be done PT so I need to prove him wrong (when I worked 80% it was in a different job with a boss who was very much of the opinion that you should only work the hours you are paid for). 90 % of the time this job can be done PT but 10 % of the time it's crazy (think 17h+ shifts) but that is financially compensated at least. So although I'm PT I still need flexibility for when it goes crazy (and luckily DH can cover it).

I do think though if you are having to do a lot of overtime from home it might be worth revisiting your hours so you are financially compensated for what you do. Is there the opportunity to formally WFH? Can your DH reduce his hours? Don't feel like you have to stick with the agreement you had when you just had 1 DC. It will need regular changes as the kids grow so keep monitoring so you and DH are happy with the arrangement.

I work full time. Have done after having both kids. One now 15 other 11.
I wish I had gone back PT-cannot afford to now. I do think that people who work PT often have it tougher, as work spills over if you are managing clients (which my job entails). I am lucky, as while office based, I can work from home and get flexibility to attend events for the kids. I like having my independence and would not have it in me to be a SAHM-but I respect those who chose to take that route. DH helps out with the kids and works from home. I also get to travel overseas around 3 times a year-and while that is tiring and hard work I know I'm lucky to have that as part of my role. Don;t feel guilty OP. There are benefits and pitfalls with both options of working and SAHM. As parents, we just have to do what is right for your families and for ourselves in terms of job satisfaction (whether paid or unpaid)

I work 32 hours over 5 days now both kids at school. When I went back after my second I did 22hours over 4 days and basically trod water for the next 3 years, extremely bored by the end. Going full time when youngest was 3 was a shock but also somehow easier as I wasn’t checking my blackberry on my day off and feeling guilty at leaving at 2pm.
You can have it all, just not all at the same time.

You can have it all, just not all at the same time.

:)

Both my children are in KS1 now; I have a very demanding job and work 5 days per week. I am able to do the school pick up 3 days per week, but I find that the guilt really kicks in when there are assemblies, school fairs, ad hoc class events, which I am not able to attend. Often, not much notice is given, and so by the time I get notice of said events, I cannot take the time off. DP often has to be in meetings, so he cannot attend things either. It's made worse when another parent tilts their head and says "It's a shame you couldn't make it, as little X was sooooooo good in the assembly". It's shit. It really is, but then I enjoy working and having financial independence. Unfortunately, business cannot operate on the whim of schools and their text messages which come through saying "we'd like you to join us at 2.15pm for a class celebration..."

I’m a Solicitor in a legal director role across two public sector organisations. I’ve worked school hours for the last 4 years and am just about to go back FT as the children are older. Public sector is great for WAH, annualised hours, flexi working etc and many very talented people in my teams work in that way.

I really benefited from keeping my career going when the children were younger and have been promoted during that time albeit probably truthfully less frequently as I would have been if I had worked FT.

It’s been a good compromise.

Miss Beehiving recognises she has made compromises, but they have been good compromises. Perhaps recognising compromises have to be made and choosing which ones can work for you in the short and longer terms, and areas where you can compromise is key to making it all successful.

Personally, I think there are some jobs which simply still don't work unless you're full time. It's sad that is the case in 2018, but it is still the case. To do those jobs and to deliver the hours and meet the deadlines and see clients when they want, require both total hours but also last minute ability to work lots of extra hours, that perhaps aren't compatible with being genuinely part time. Those who try find they have to give huge numbers of hours out of work (unpaid) to the role and also because of the need for loads of hours often at short notice to meet particular deadlines, the time at home or with children often has to be sacrificed, creating guilt (because doing the job part time reflects a desire to spend time at home with children)and/ or big stress in juggling the practicals. I think it can work if there is a partner and the partner has much greater flexibility and willingness and ability to pick up the slack - lucky people who have that. Traditionally, it was men who worked the crazy hours jobs, and what enabled them to do it was wives at home holding the fort, so the men could just push on without worrying about home. Some women have a partner at home who plays the same role, or one who is much more flexible, but many women try to do the job that requires the big hours and flexibility without the level of support at home that is needed to make it work....result is then stress, juggling, that sense of not being at home or work enough and letting everyone down. Horrible.

Question for those in the big city, client facing and charging roles. Is the idea of public sector or in-house role really awful? Does it feel like selling out on the big career, in a way which can never ever be recovered from? I guess that some of these roles are perhaps sneered at a little bit in the big city companies, in the way hospital medics might see being a GP as the less cut-throat and less challenging or exciting role for the less ambitious (no offence meant). Is it this which keeps people going in those jobs which are so hard to sustain if you want to be part time? I get that they pay less too. Is the money the biggest driving factor and have people set up lifestyles which really cannot take a bit of a hit on salary in order to survive? Are those lifestyles impossible to adjust slightly if necessary?

I totally understand that lots of people want to continue their exciting career,nwhich has taken years to build and which they are great at. If these jobs require full time, is being full time the answer and accepting that and putting in place the Nanny and other paid workers to make life manageable and life certain for both parents and children the answer.

What has encouraged me from this thread, is how many people who are a few years further in with it all, who decided the big city client facing job which required full time lomg lomg hours and flexibility to work even longer with deadlines looming, decided to compromise, made compromises often into other roles which did allow them the flexibility they needed, and who have seen their career continue and even grow, even if not to the levels it might have without children, in a way which was both satisfying, gave them the time they wanted with their children, but also kept doors open for later, so that when the time came when children were older, that full time or roles back in some of those more competitive and demanding areas were still open. Whatever is chosen now does not have to be forever. Children have many phases of being pre-schoolers, primary aged, secondary aged, university aged and beyond and the way we live our lives might change in relation to it. There are usually options available to us and even more if we put our minds to looking for them and aren't too rigid in our views about individual aspects. Our lives are short and the lives of our children growing up even shorter, so being miserable in any phase, seems best avoided if at all possible, even if some compromises have to be made. I don't think it's a dirty word, but something that when your life includes others, is often the best way to get the very best out of it.

I could have written your post OP a few years ago. Worked 3 days a week in Comm Lit in city firm - not really a specialism that lends itself to moving firms on p/t hours or going in-house so I was stuck with my pre-children role, with a 120 mile daily commute. Only worked because H would do drop offs all 3 days (I left home at 6am), I'd do 2 pick ups and then on my 3rd day, instead of leaving at 5pm (which I had to the other 2 days), I was often there until 10pm or later. Still picked up emails and calls on days off, changed days to facilitate Court hearings.

And that was all just treading water - wasn't promoted for 8 years. It was just an unwritten rule that you'd never be promoted doing 3 days. I went back up to 4 days when youngest DD was 6 and I was promoted within 24 hours .

I think you have to manage your own expectations - unfortunately the guilt and wondering how you can manage the logistics is normal. That's not to say you can't press the point that you're still a good lawyer on p/t hours, but I certainly had to reconcile my decision to stay p/t when everyone was leapfrogging me.

I'd also agree that unfortunately the nursery years are the easiest in terms of logistics (although the sleep deprivation gets better!). Managing school hours, school holidays, homework and work with later bedtimes as the children get older is really hard.

I'm now at a local niche firm which is unbelievably good for me - work is top quality (regularly against magic circle firms) but it took some finding. I agree with a pp about living as close to your preferred secondary school as you can. My older children can walk home from school / to sports activities and it's really made life easier (although at 12, that's still some time off for you!).

I'd say for the time being, think about how you think you'll manage primary school and how that will fit with your working hours / current role. Keep an eye out for opportunities that may make a difference to the work / life balance.

I'm a single parent to a 3yo and work full time. Hours vary depending how much there is to do (deputy manager in care). Some days 9-5, some 8-6, some 9-9, some 7:30-6 etc you get the idea! Supposed to be Monday to Friday 9-5 but end up doing weekends sometimes too!

Ime, my children had no issues with me working full time and some odd hours too inc weekends etc. Its what they grew up to expect. HOWEVER, come school and it was totally different as they witnessed parents picking up other children from school and them going to after school club. Then the whining and guilt tripping started. So, for the next few years, I wouldn't feel guilty OP! However, if you want more time with your children and don't feel its acceptable to have to commit what you do to work, then you need a rethink.

I would give me right nipple to work in the public sector but there is little opportunity in the jurisdiction I live in. If I lived in England still I would definitely be in the public sector still

I'm a commercial property solicitor in a top 100 firm not massive but pretty competitive.

I didn't go back after mat leave and actually had a 5 year break. Luckily for me a job share came up and I took it. I now work 2 days a week. It's a much lower grade job then before. I was a senior associate and now I'm just a solicitor.

I doubt I'll ever be promoted but tbh I don't really care. I've opted out of all the crap. I'm good at what I do and don't feel.like I need to prove myself to loads of arseholes who love to look at what each other has billed - get a fucking life.

I'm.keeping my hand in and that is enough.

But if you are working a full time case load in 3 days because you are sacrificing your evenings you are being underpaid.
Funny that firms generally allow you to work 4 days as part time as they know that you'll do all the work and they can pay you less.

You could probably work for a smaller firm and be a lot happier although paid less.

I work a professional job in the civil service for 4 days a week. I found I was resentful of the extra work required to keep up in my field as it was time away from my children (7 and 5). So I made a decision to put my career on hold just for a few years while they were young. Was honest with my employer who were very understanding and now I have a happy work life balance in a job I can do easily but with scope to throw myself back into cpd and progression in a few years. Way I see it is that if I can't give my DC my time for realistically a small period of my working life why did I have them in the first place? But then that's what keeps me happy. We're all different.

I'm a solicitor, legal aid high street so pay is rubbish, but I enjoy the work. I do 28 hours based on 3 office days plus 8 hours over evenings and my 2 days off. DS(6) is in school and DD(3) is with me 2 days a week.

The upside is that I get 2 days a week to be with DD and do the school run, which is great. The downside is I have very little downtime as I'm working every night after i put the kids to bed then I'm exhausted. I never feel like I can plan holidays, or do DIY, or hobbies etc. Also my house is a tip.

On balance I wouldnt change it as my time with the kids is so valuable.

I was really looking forward to DD starting school in September so I could use my 2 days off better, I'm advocacy based so could have done some more of my own hearings, and had some free evening time instead. However, I'm now 6 weeks pregnant with number 3, so... We'll see how that all works out!

I think it is less stressful to work full time and have a nanny and a cleaner.
Would your dh consider going part time?

The way I see it is this...working makes me appreciate being at home, and being at home makes me appreciate working. I'd say a balance of both is ideal for everyone, as LONG as you enjoy your job. If you don't like your job then I'd suggest a move although I appreciate for some people they have very little choice about where they work and obviously those people should not feel any guilt because they are powerless and you can only feel guilty about things that are in your circle of influence.

Can I say it more clearly - S*D the guilt. Seriously, all this talk of guilt is destructive and unhelpful. As a working mother you are a fantastic role model and you are doing what you need to do.

For info, I have 4 kids under 6 and work 4 days a week. It's hard but I like my job and I like the intellectual stimulation, learning opportunities and socialising that I get in the workplace. I found my 3rd maternity leave (twins) much more tedious than the first two, all those women talking baby small talk (bleh).

Read Women and Power by Mary Beard, listen to the Women at Work Podcast by HBR (free through spotify), read A Good Time to Be a Girl by Helena Morrisey and, if you have no choice about working, get in zone and do what you can to enjoy it.

Lose the mum guilt immediately.you're burdening yourself with that big ole mantle
It’s a societal and gender expectation that’s not foisted upon men,at all
No one says,poor dad,working,contributing to family. What a shame.poor guy
You’re providing for your kids yiu don’t need to justify it,or wring your hands
Just get on with getting on ffs

Omg,I am reading this thread and feeling such a sense of solidarity. I'm a solicitor, in house.
I am fully aware that my situation is temporary as any number of movings parts will disrupt it (including dc getting older) but for now this is working.
DC are 1 and 4. I work from home on average 2-3 days a week and have a nanny. I have become much more disciplined about downing tools but because of time zone issues and client deadlines I end up working in the evenings many to most days, depending on what's going on that week. I have a not inconsiderable commute to work and no family support, and dh has a bad commute and long hours too, so being able to work from home means I would rethink moving from this job even with all its issues.
Overall I am stretched but it's workable for now.

*moving parts!

Obviously we have no savings to speak of, but that's the trade off I suppose.

I never did guilt.

I do regret that the kids’ first nursery was less good than it could have been but that’s different.

Also one child had some significant SN issues that needed me to step in and solve and that involved reducing hours.. But that’s different to normal vague guilt stuff. It was more akin to an emergency in a way..... I looked around to see who had the best skills to solve the problem and unfortunately that turned out to be me!

Btw, it seems lots of us are being paid for fewer hours than we work....