To ask WOHM mums about your working hours?

[GinnyLovesGin]

Yeah. Specifically mums.

I’m about to go back to work after my second stint of maternity leave. DD2 will be 9 months old and joining DD1 (aged 3) in a private nursery. I work 3 days per week in a really stressful job. I say three days but before I went on mat leave, I was working at the kitchen table every night after DD1 went to bed, attending seminars etc in the evenings etc. Basically I had a full time workload and three days in the office. I’m a solicitor in a huge firm. It is competitive as fuck.

I like my job but it is the kind of job where, to get anywhere with it, I need to study it, work late nights (client work as well as CPD/business development) and basically eat, sleep and breathe it. It isnt massively compatible with family life (if only someone had told me that five years ago). No flexible working etc.

I don’t feel great about having to work at all (I don’t think I’m SAHM material but in turn I feel bad about that), but we need both our salaries. We could exist on DHs salary but we wouldn’t have any disposable income and I want to be able to give the girls things like a nice house in a good area (where we are now, good schools etc) experiences, holidays etc. Equally, i don’t want to work and be considered mediocre or shit at my job (but my girls will always come first and I won’t make any apologies for that). So I feel like if I’m going to work then I need to try hard and do as well as I can. I want to succeed. And in turn I feel guilty about this.

My husbands work is a little more family friendly and he is usually home around six so if I need to do late nights etc then he’s there and he can (and does) do the nursery pick up, get dinner/bath/bed sorted as well as I can. We don’t have much other support so we are lucky in that respect.

I guess what I’m asking, very inarticulately, is how bad should I feel about this? I feel horrible crippling guilt. Like I know they have DH but I’m their mum and I should be there.

I’m just looking for thoughts and experiences I guess. I don’t know how to balance it.

I'm left wondering if your partners/husbands feel guilty?

I work 40-50 hours per week plus around 6-8 international work trips per year. However I have a very flexible job, short commute and can work at home when I want. I would struggle to do my client-facing role in fewer days, so would almost certainly end up working on my day off if I reduced to part time. DH and I both flex our hours so that between us we do all school drop off, some pick ups, and can fit in after school clubs. We then work in the evenings to make up the time and get work finished. I have no guilt. The DC have a lot of quality time with their parents and benefit from the extra money that comes with two FT jobs. To be fair I am not sure how we would cope if we didn’t have flexible jobs. It would certainly be much harder. I am thinking of moving jobs this year, but it would take a huge salary increase to make up for loss of flexibility.

I'm a solicitor and have one dc, almost 2. I went back to work full time when he was 10 months. Personally I don't think working part time really works in this job, in private practice at least. I know lots of mums who do 4 days a week, a few who do 3, but all are stressed all the time, work on their day off, swap round their day off to accommodate client needs etc, all while having taken a 20% pay cut (or 40% in your case). For me, full time works better. DS is in a good nursery close to my work. I'm ridiculously efficient now - because I have to be - and leave the office dead on 5.30 most days - but regularly log back in later once DS is in bed. I don't work in the city though, large regional.

I'm left wondering if your partners/husbands feel guilty?

Mine does! He’s an IT contractor who took four months off when DS was six months old (so he’s only just gone back). He’s really missing him and feels guilty about getting back after DS has gone to bed.

I’m going back next month, and will be doing 8-6 three days a week (plus nights and weekends, plus extra from home after DS has gone to bed).

I’m not looking forward to it, luckily our nursery is open extended hours but it seems like a long time for him to be out of the house. But if I don’t go back now, I’ll never be able to go back (I’m a doctor, I’d lose my licence to practice and there is no route back from that). So I’ll just have to grit my teeth and do it unfortunately.

I'm a public sector accountant and have stayed in the same role since becoming pregnant for the first time nearly 11 years ago. I work a 70% FTE across 4 days and I am very happy with my working pattern. In the early days I was definitely a mediocre employee due to utter exhaustion. Now kids are at school and I get a day off to myself for chores ad recharging I'm a good value for money employee.

I would have expected to be in a more challenging role but I'm tied to my PT hours as I have a child with SN and need the head space and flexibility that a day off brings. I never work from home. I've made my peace with marking time at work until ASD child is out of education.

I have a tough career in finance and am returning to work full time after my third baby as part time is not allowed in my role. I've always been really loyal and proud and I've always declined the voluntary redundancies and worked harder to maintain my position. I made the decision just recently that this is no life and next time redundancy comes up (it's imminent again) I will take it and put my babies first. Yes I feel a pang of sadness as that's been my life for nearly 20 years but it's time to give more to my babies. Ultimately when we look back on our lives when we're old who gives a shit about that fabulous presentation I did in 2005 vs growing my family. Ps I will get a part time job as I'm a do-er but I'm happy to kiss goodbye to the pressure and the rat race

I work full time and in house as a solicitor at a household name, great company, benefits and salary and if I want to I can leave at half five everyday and can work from home on one or two days a week. If I have too much work, I outsource it or extend deadlines. It's totally different being the customer and not the provider (I've also worked for years in a law firm) and there's far less of a pressure there when you're not time recording and doing BD and all the other things that come with being in private practice.

Fellow lawyer here. I work 4 days per week, one from home, but scope for more home working when needed.

I went from a big commercial firm to a small niche firm that allow much more flexibility.

I’m out of the house for 45 hours ish a week over the 4 days but it’s the best work life balance for me. I love my job.

I did try very part time working in the past (20 hours) but ended up only getting dregs of work which made my job shit, whilst still not being there all the time at home and also feeling shit about that. 4 days works really well for me.

I’m a senior associate at a City firm. My specialism is Corporate and I work four days a week. DD is 3 and DS is due in June.

Four days a week does work for me (just) although it does inevitably put pressure on my last working day before my three days out of the office. At the end of transactions, I do sometimes have to work on my day off but I get a day off in lieu (or paid for it). I would say it works 80% of the time, 10% bit stressful trying to keep an eye on the emails and 10% a write-off. I have never resented the 20% drop in salary: my non-working day with DD has been so special. That said, when DS goes to school, I think I will go back to 5 days a week, but be WFH 2 days a week to be able to be there a bit more. As many have noted, it inevitably means working in the evenings but I try very hard to do it only when necessary to avoid burn out.

The Law is a dreadful profession for women: archaic, chauvenistic & entrenched in out moded ways of working, but I firmly believe that we can fashion our own new model. Do what suits you, OP: it is your career & your family. Sometimes it pays to try to forge your own way. At my prior firm, which is an American firm, no one in the London office had been pregnant & in NY, everyone went back (depressingly) after 3 months (they have a lactating room!). I took 8 months, which was accepted (but I will be braver this time) and they also accepted my request to do a 4 day week. I moved to another City firm for career progression and I took the 4 day week with me. However, the partnership track is definitely harder: it is hard to fit the bus dev in and “compete” with the male senior associates who either don’t have children or have SAHM wives.

It is certainly a busy juggling act, but I see DD in the morning and in the evening (I am like a bat out of hell at 6.15pm) and then for 3 days. I echo the previous comments about nannies and support. My mum is here two days a week and we have a wonderful nanny for the other two days, plus a cleaner. Reading that back, that is admitedly an army of help, which means I can focus on DD & career. No cleaning or ironing and if work is busy, I’ll just have toast for dinner.

Best of luck OP. If you want to, hang on in there, but never worth your happiness or wellbeing.

I'm a solicitor too. I found the juggling act actually became easier after number 2 because the dc had the security of each other being around so missed me less! I start a bit later in the morning (10ish) and dh does the evenings so they get the best of both and I don't have to worry if I get stuck in meetings etc. Doing 3 days a week sounds a good compromise and if you can make it work for now it seems worth it for financial security and to give your kids the lifestyle you want them to have. Just try to enjoy both aspects of your life and set clear boundaries for when work can/can't creep in on your days off (e.g. my secretary accesses my emails during the day and will deal with anything/pass to others in the team, knowing I can't deal with anything until the evening/next day). That really helps and saves a lot of stressing. Good luck op, sounds like you have a grand balance and your dc are very lucky 💐

Would you feel guilty if you were a man? If you were a man and you were working three days to ‘help out’ with child care you’d be given a medal.
You shouldn’t feel guilty at all! Your career is important to you and it will give your daughters huge benefits in life, a good education, living in a nice area, having high achieving female role model, holidays, experiences, afterschool activities, etc etc. That isn’t to say there aren’t huge benefits of having a SAHP too. There is no perfect answer you can’t be available to your children 24/7 and have a high flying career so do what will make you happiest and stop feeling guilty about it.

Yeah try getting a job in a small firm on three days a week. I’ve looked.

I know four people who've done this in the past year or so, only 1 of the jobs was advertised as part time. It is possible, but doesn't sound like you really want that anyway.

And I'd agree with the PP who said once they're at school flexibility is way more useful.

I think if you are able to be present on your two days off is not constantly checking email or taking calls that's great and don't beat yourself up about late nights etc. Have you tried to unpick why you feel so guilty?

I would think that perhaps you have more choices than you think. If you're not happy with the way things are now (and this isn't about guilt, but just if you're not happy) then there are some different ways to live, parent and work - it doesn't have to be as it is now, it just depends if you are willing to consider them and where your biggest priorities lie.

Quite possibly it is impossible to have it all - to have the high powered, time consuming career, and to be around for your children in person, as much as you would like. Something has to give, even if in the short term. Trying to do a very demanding full time job which requires a lot of flexibility around clients, whilst being paid 3 days and trying to be around a lot for children is always going to be exhausting and feeling fully fulfilled and successful in both roles, probably just not possible. You have to either lower your expectations of success and fulfilment in one or both or alter the balance between time put into them. Time constraints mean this is simply a fact - efficiency can get you a lomg way, but not another 24 hours in a day.

Work - lots of people have suggested alternatives for a short time. Working in a non-city based or none charging role? Working in-house or for the public sector? Accepting being mediocre for a while. Going full time? You can either decide to prioritise work and career a bit more and get the satisfaction in that area, or you can accept having to tone things down a bit for a period of time in this area, so there is more for the home life.

Home - you could accept that you can't be there or engaged as much as you would like and DH is going to take on more of that aspect - he is a parent and the children will get lots from being with him - it doesn't have to be you. You can pay for childcare such as a Nanny so the burden is lifted on you but also him and give you back a bit of flexibility and remove the stress of the impact of suddenly needing to be in work or work longer. You can do less work from home. This might make you mediocre at work, but it is a possibility.

Regarding amounts of flexibility, I would also consider just how important some of these areas are to you - there is more choice than you think too - how desperately do you need the money from your job? How important is the lifestyle it allows in terms of house (you mention moving) and other lifestyle choices? There are always options for remaining in a smaller house, cheaper area, lifestyle savings - is a certain lifestyle idea making you captive to a work pattern that isn't working. There can be other options. How important is remaining in this highly competitive area of law and moving on within it, to you? You know the sacrifices needs to do this, which is fine if you are willing to make them, but are you? If this is a key priority would working full time and devoting yourself to it be better? How important is personal time with the children for you? Again, if it is something you value, you can have more time with them - this is always an option, but requires choices which will allow it.

It's a massive conflict isn't it. A highly successful career that you have worked many years for and get a lot from, but one which really demands everything from you when you don't want to give everything to it, but have something for this other very important area of your life - the family. Never mind guilt, it's not really the issue.....what do you want? Not a life where you feel nothing is ever done to the right standard and where you can never be on top of anything....over time that's draining and not a recipe for a happy, successful or fulfilling life - which in the end is what you want for you and your family. I would think that carrying on as you are (and this is another option - to just carry on) will probably feel like fighting your way through life, without full success in any area. I might be wrong - lots of people do live this kind of life where they feel a bit disappointed in all areas and just come to accept it as the best outcome in a world of 2nd bests. I do think there are more choices than you think.

I work outside the home for more than 60 hours a week. I'm a single mum and if I didn't my kid wouldn't eat. Her dad is present in her life but gives me zero maintenance. I feel zero guilt because I can't afford to -- I have no alternative so guilt is pointless.

Sorry if that sounds stark and goady. But it has focused my mind and it should focus yours.

Feeling guilty about working is a relatively new construct -- its only really been since the First World War that a significant proportion of mums have had the luxury of considering otherwise. Throughout most of history a large proportion of working class mothers had to work.

Life is too short to feel bad about things you have to do to support your family. End of.

Great post Chocolate Wombat

I’m due back to work in a couple of weeks after a year maternity leave. I work in a City finance firm but have a more middle office role now, although still transaction oriented so can be some long hours. I’m going back 4 days & am not entirely sure that I won’t end up doing 100% work for 80% pay.

I do feel guilt at DS being in childcare, but it’s not that I feel that I should be there everyday-I’d be more than happy for DH to be a SAHD if that were financially feasible (it’s not).

I’m jealous of families with a stay at home parent - the working partner can go to work guilt/stress free knowing all is well at home!

Can you take a year out? Your youngest will be almost two by then, and lots of toddlers start nursery at that age.

If you have enough to get by, but not enough for luxuries. Then your time with dc can be your luxury for a year, and you won't be going far with a baby anyway.

I would consider (if you can) taking more time off.

Agree, very thought-provoking post from @ChocolateWombat

I second what most people on here said, that you possibly need to rethink your arrangements. I am not a solicitor, but in a senior corporate role and I did attempt three days, which was the absolute worse of both worlds (for me). I felt I was attempting to do a full time job in 3 days and working nights/days off, never doing anything properly.

If it's any consolation, many women do manage successful careers and children, even with no parental support (like me). I have a very supportive husband though and I don't feel guilty at all about him doing half or more, he is their dad after all!

Our careers have taken slight back steps at different stages, but overall we have managed relative success. It is hard at times....but I does get easier and you will be pleased to know the children are absolutely fine and doing well many years on....(2 in secondary school).

I work 32 hours across 4 days, so slightly compressed (8 hours a day instead of 7 hours 24 mins). I do one day from home every fortnight, and sometimes ad hoc depending on my workload.

I work in the public sector, in a Parliamentary institution. In my department I was lucky to be allowed to reduce my hours at all, a lot of people have been refused or to told not to even bother applying. Had I applied to work three days, I would have been refused. However, I do feel supported as a PT worker. My team leader is also a mother (albeit full time) and is very supportive of the PT working parent. We have flexi so when DS is at school that will be really important. We also have a lot of annual leave, although limited on the most part to the school holidays. Again when DS is at school, this will be a big positive.

I worked in the private sector before and definitely think the pace is different. I’m always busy, and most likely do fit a FT job into 4 days, but I rarely feel rushed off my feet stressed. I don’t do any work outside of my hours, and I don’t find myself working longer days than my hours overall, either.

I think it's clear that jobs can differ hugely. In some, full time means 9-5 and you can leave on time and know espxactly where you are. There won't be working in the evenings or sudden rushes from clients which means working 15 hour days. A regular job where it's even possible to talk about the hours you work may well allow a parent to work full time or 4 days or whatever and still feel in control and as if they are being a parent.
And then there's these other jobs, where to ask someone how many hours they work or if they can do flexi and have time in lieu of work compressed hours is just laughable....because everyone works significantly more hours than the standard hours almost every day, has to meet deadlines which mean sudden and last minute big pushes which require huge hours into the night or over weekends, and wher it is the norm for someone who is supposedly part time and being paid part time, to still be working far in excess of a normal full time role, because the work simply has to be completed and you work until you have.
As others have said upthread, some of these jobs are very male dominated and don't really have any recognition of family life. They pay well, but the demands are huge. And there are always women who decide they want to keep going in their jobs and are determined and sure there must be a way to make it work and to be a parent too.
I find it so depressing that so many if these hugely talented women who have given their industries so much and want to keep working at a high level find that after a while it is all just too much and have to leave for a different job or stop work altogether, or continue, but only manage it by accepting far less involvement with their children than they would like. Most women are not afraid of hard work, but it seems to me that the demands of some jobs just aren't compatible with family life unless you have a partner who doesn't have to work, doesn't want to work and is happy being at home.
There's a lot that can be helped by throwing money at things. Long hour and flexible Nanies can remove a lot of the stress about last minute things and knowing the kids are safe at home and looked after, rather than frantic phoning round to sort a solution can make a big difference, cleaners, gardeners, people who organise stuff like car mots, organising children's parties, can all be sorted with money. Again, the amount you need to do that depends on availability or existence of a partner too, plus deciding how much you see willing to contract out and what you are unhappy with.
I think that something people sometimes forget is that whilst it might not be great to take big breaks in some industries, it is usually possible to have a couple of years or more of going slower, not moving up the greasy pole or even moving down slightly for a while.....and the chance to rejoin the full scale rat race and go for big promotions is still there in a couple of years.

I've found it a lot harder now I have 2 DC, one at school, to feel like I have a balance incidentally because even on the days I am at home either one of them isn't there or I have both vying for my attention. When I had one I felt working 3 days even with longer hours was a good arrangement whereas now I never seem to have enough time in the day.

I'm not a solicitor but prof services, initially went back on a 3 day week but was in reality doing almost full time but getting paid for three days. Now kids are in school I do three days in the office and two days 9-3 at home. Same workload as in three days a week but at least getting paid for it.

You don't need to feel guilty at all. If you or dh are around when DC need a parent that might even work out better in the long run, as they won't become more attached to you over dh.
I previously worked 4 days OH, but also a few hours of each of those evenings and weekends at home. Ultimately, that wasn't sustainable with a dh working away most of the year (including weekends) and no family support. I doubt I'll ever get back into that when the DC are a bit more independent, so enjoy the fact that it works for you to have a good career with progression and pension, and don't feel guilty!

I only work 2 days a week but still manage to feel guilty when I can't make it to certain school events or when I know the DCs have had enough of after school club!

If I didn't work at all I'm sure I'd find something else to feel guilty about