To ask you about the new teacher's rule...?

[PeppermintPasty]

Ok, my ds is y6. He has just turned 11.

He's pretty normal, pretty average. Has a big bunch of friends, there are a lot of boys in the class generally. He seems to be as popular as he needs to be, and happy most of the time.

He can get very teary and intense about things, more so than, for example, his dsis (age 7), who is as hard as nails slightly tougher in some ways.

Anyway, one of his 'things' is going for a pee in the loo just before we leave the house almost every single time we go out. Sometimes he will go for a pee, we will then travel a mile to someone's house or something, and he'll immediately go when he gets there etc. He's known for it (amongst his mates whom I have heard josh him about it). I try not to make a thing of it. Sometimes I do say "what, again?" in exasperation, which probably isn't great of me.

So, new teacher this term. She has said that dc in class should not be asking to go to the toilet so often. She apparently thinks it can be a 'distraction technique' (the school's/her phrase) rather than a genuine need. 'If this appears to be the case the teacher may say (pupils) will have to wait until a natural break in learning'. The school goes on to say, (a bit odd imo): 'However, in the vast majority of cases the children will have free access to the toilet'. (-seems to be a light threat in there somewhere!).

I was driving my ds and his friend home a week or so ago and they were talking about how 'unfair' it was that my ds wasn't allowed to go to the toilet that day, first time I'd been made aware of it.

I generally don't want to blow it up into a big thing so I said to let me know if there's a problem again and I'll see what I can find out, that sort of thing.

In his home book today the teacher has written that he took too long between lunch and the next class (he went to the loo), and that he is using allowed loo breaks to 'contest' her rules by deliberately taking too long during these 'legitimate' breaks ( the children are generally not allowed to go during class any more).

He has no idea what she is talking about, I have explained what she is saying as objectively as possible. He says he was in the loo and he needed to go. She has taken points off him and wants me to 'talk' to him about this!

Aibu thinking this is overkill? My view of my ds is undoubtedly coloured, but I am also aware he is a bit of a follower not a leader generally, and I doubt he would deliberately try to 'contest' her authority. Without doubt he can be silly, loud, and is dreadful at paying attention, but he's not a calculating little sod, iyswim.

This has only been a school-wide issue since this teacher started, it seems to be a 'thing' now.

I would just like to know what teachers on here think, and parents of course.

I have replied in his book to say I do not want him to be punished for wanting to go to the loo, but I have said I will of course talk to him about any other matters that might arise. (And of course I have spoken to him about this issue anyway).

Bit long, sorry.

I would agree with astonvanilla. I was an anxious child around needing toilet and once I knew one of my teachers (at secondary) wouldn’t let me out to the toilet it made it so much worse to the point i would stop drinking the day before to try and make sure I wouldn’t need bit I still really felt like I needed. I think once you’ve ruled anything medical out you should be telling teacher to let him out as and when he needs instead of making it a thing.

Notso, she has stopped all classtime toilet breaks. He went to the loo during an allowed break i.e. after lunch and before the next class, and she is saying that he is taking too long and that it is deliberate, presumably to be wilful and 'contest' her rule. I have to say, that couldn't be less like his character. He wouldn't even think of it.

People have reported this? You're kidding me? Wow. Good grief.

My son goes to the LOADS - not at school, so it's not an issue, but regularly goes before getting in the bath, then has to get out to do another, then another after his bath before bed. Without wishing to be too graphic, he really does need to go - it's not just a trickle - and I just assumed it was because he drinks loads. Is it really that odd to wee so frequently - he probably drinks between half and a pint of water around dinner time...

If you think he has an anxiety issue about going to the loo, I would do 2 things. Firstly I would tell the teacher. Explain you understand the rule and support school rules but this has come at a time when your son is showing problems in this area. Tell school you plan to take him to the doctor to talk about this, or go to the doctor without him first to talk about it. The 2nd thing is to go and speak with the doctor.

I think his behaviour isn't usual and he does sound anxious. It's best to get this checked out by a doctor who will have seen it many times. And whilst you are doing this, the school should know.

This rule is a good rule for the vast majority of children. There might be 1 or 2 in most year groups that it is not good for and the school will understand....but they can only understand if you tell them.

I did that in high school, it was anxiety related and I still do it to an extent now 15 years after it started. Like others I stopped drinking to try 'control' it and it got to the point where I'd have panic attacks about not being able to go. I'd say that you need to intervene now with the school, make them aware that you'll be trying to find an answer but in the meantime they are to not make a big deal out of it (as you're right in that it does make it worse!)

My own ds takes large levels of antihistamines due to anaphylactic allergies, and this causes him to have an irritable bladder, is your ds on any medication that could possibly be the cause.

It is an excessive amount of times to be going to the bathroom during school hours, however I would get him checked out, even if it is an anxiety issue, its still a medical condition, that he may need help for, however it not something the teacher can just say NO to, as it may cause his anxiety to worsen.

Id seek medical advice OP

If the school know he is showing signs of anxiety and this is how it manifests itself and you are seeking help, of course they will be supportive of him and find ways to make it work for him. They are not going to say 'no, the rule applies to everyone and he is time wasting'
You simply need to be open about it all.

I think the teacher is right in the general sense. And it needs to be escalated because its not normal for an 11yo to need the toilet so often. Definitely start with the GP and talk to school about how to cope. This will be a major problem come September in Y7, if its not sorted.

I’m a secondary school teacher and I often refuse to let pupils out of lessons if they’ve just had a break or are close to a break. Unless they have a medical note, that is. Once one goes they all start asking and then half the lesson is wasted. Once in a blue moon is ok and I’d let them off, but someone asking out as often as your son would be told to stop asking.

Do they not have free access to a toilet DURING lunch? The teacher's issue seems to be with him going at the lunch time bell and therefore being late back into class. I agree this is irritating, why not go at 12.55 or 12.30? Its also difficult to supervise - on the odd occasion Ive started taking my register and discover 3 or 4 boys are missing but I cant stand outside the toilet doors until everyone is in the classroom as Im then leaving a class unattended.

I dont think this is what your son is doing, I think his need is genuine. But perhaps its a bit of a pet peeve of the teacher's and she's taking it out on him a little.

I would talk to your son about going before the bell and being as quick as possible. I would tell her youve had this conversation and that he does urinate frequently so you consider the need genuine and dont expect him to be punished for it.

If they dont have free access during lunch then thats just barmy.

By taking too long does she mean he is turning up late for the next lesson?

That’s a lot to drink. I really think you need to get him checked out. And make sure it is just weeing because he drinks a lot. The symptoms of both diabetes and water diabetes include increased thirst.

The teacher isn’t being unreasonable in her expectations of a Y 6 child with no identified medical reason. You need to take him to the GP, rather than wait until he’s in a new school with staff that don’t know him and who will expect children to go at break times.
Finally, has he wet himself at all? Because if he can wait and the only issue is that he’s unhappy about it, then it probably isn’t a physical issue. Odd you’ve been ok with it for so long, weren’t you worried?

How long has your ds had tbis issue? My ds started going to the toilet A LOT over q couple of months and it turned out he has diabetes.
It's probably not that but I would certainly get it checked out.

The signs to look for are Toilet, Tired, Thirsty and Thin.

My brother used to do that. It is anxiety.
He had a scary teacher and it made him very depressed and angry.

I absolutely think you’re being an excellent mother, just from my experience since childhood I’ve been v anxious about next time I can visit the loo. I STILL deliberately dehydrate myself before long ca journeys and still feel the need to stop ever other hour. I used to feel the same in KS2- if no restrictions I could wait- but With restrictions I’d be squirming within 30mine. No health issues, all psychological. No advice but just to try not to make a big deal from it or his teachers attitude if you can

I’ve taught Y6. There is so much pressure and a lot to cover, especially in the run up to SATs. In addition, if she is a new teacher she will have to establish herself quickly as the class don’t really have time for her to settle in.

The start of the class time is probably when she is explaining the task. A child arriving late would miss this and it would have an impact on the amount of teaching time available to support pupils with the task if she is repeating herself. Could your son maybe set an alarm on his watch (if he wears one) for five mins before the end of lunch? This would give him the chance to nip to the loo in peace without worry of being late to class.

I’d also try to have a chat to the teacher either in person or on the phone. She hasn’t had chance to get to know your boy as yet and won’t be aware of his anxiety/potential issue with needing the loo. Let her know about going to the GP too as it shows he needs special consideration. Perhaps you can make a compromise that works for everyone.

So he was a bit late back to class or something. Her reasoning that he is making some kind of protest seems over the top.
I get that some kids use toilet breaks as a chance to have a little wander but honestly I think restricting the toilets is wrong.
If the school says the children should have free access to the toilets then they should do.
I'm sick of seeing my 13 year old coming home from school on the verge of pissing himself because the school lock the toilets in the afternoon and they only have a twenty minute lunch break.

I can see her point that if he has just had however long for a lunch break, but waits until the very last minute and ends up being late to class, then that does seem at worst deliberate, at best quite thoughtless/ disorganised. And it is quite disruptive if children are going to the toilet during teacher explanations etc.

In the short term, its'sworth putting her in the picture about your son's habit, but perhaps he is of an age now where he could keep an eye on the time and ensure that he goes to the toilet five minutes before the end of break for instance. If there is a rule that children aren't allowed inside before the bell or whatever, the teacher may be able to supply him with a pass to get in a little early to go to the toilet.

I used to do this at school - it may have been anxiety but it was harmless. Nothing medically wrong. I often go a lot as an adult now.

I’d suggest a conversation about trying to plan better/ hold it a bit more but also a conversation with teacher that if he needs to go to the toilet he absolutely has to be let - otherwise it will become a bigger issue

It definitely sounds like an anxiety issue. You need to speak to the teacher about it and I’m sure she will be very understanding. It is not an uncommon avoidance tactic among some pupils to be regularly asking to get out of lessons for toilet breaks and coming in late to lessons and blaming it on being at the toilet (no way of disputing if you really had to go).
The rule is not there for boys like your son, so giving the teacher an overview of the situation is essential or it may get worse.

I used to go to the toilet all the time in school. It was an anxiety thing also.
I do think it would be good to go to the doctor.
You could also arrange a meeting with pastoral care and make them aware if the situation.
At the end of the day -if it is anxiety- you don't want it to increase due to the stress of not having his routine.

My son was told he had a 'nervous bladder' by the GP, and was given suggestions about how to prolong the intervals between emptying it. It is an anxiety thing, but anxiety isn't subject to willpower. He needs to train himself to go longer without a trip to the toilet.

What goes on in the toilets at break time? Is he trying to avoid using the toilets when everyone else is there?

When I was a teacher, I found clamp downs on children going to the toilet very difficult to enforce, because I found it it's impossible to tell if a child was really desperate to go, or just fancied a trip out of the classroom.

How is he after school, during holidays and weekends?

Also, overnight?