School becoming increasingly religious alongside loss of staff...

[Atheistmum]

NC for this as the details will be potentially outing.

So both my DC ages 6 and 10 attend a local state C of E primary school.

We have only two schools in the small town in which we live, the large C of E and another small Catholic one. Having been educated through the Catholic school system Myself, I was keen to avoid a ‘faith’ education for my kids however we have no secular option in this town or indeed in any of the local smaller surrounding towns and villages. So we were stuck with opting for the educationally ‘outstanding’ C of E school.

Until recently all has been well, the expected low level religious the,es woven in, however a new head was appointed about a year ago, and since then 6 or 7 members of staff have left including the deputy and assistant head and another Head of year all put down to ‘ people moving on to further their careers’.

In this time there has also been an increasing religious emphahsis underpinning an awful lot of what is done at the school, All assemblies are now religious based, local vicar comes in to school multiple times per week to teach, both of my kids come home singing what sound like evangelical christian songs!!

My eldest told me about a lesson wherby a picture of a sign was put up in class with a list of many faiths all pointing the ‘wrong’ way and only christianity pointing the ‘right’ way, he was actively concerned about this as there are kids of others faiths who have no choice but to attend the school!

Now my AIBU is basically aibu to email concerns about this, who to and how can I word it? I realise that the school is controlled to a certain extent by the church ( i fundamentally disagree with schools being used to indoctrinate young people but given we have no other option I am stuck with this) and l can live with it if its just about learning about and participating in mainstream stuff like easter, harvest festival, nativity etc however more and more of the kids learning is being based on religious content and I am really uncomfortable with this.

The head himself is obviously a deeply religious man and I am concerned that he is using the school to further his agenda.

Report them to the diocese.

Good luck with that. When the local CoE primary school started presenting creationism as the alternative view, fully justified as giving children the full range blah blah the local diocese gave a mealy mouthed response which changed nothing. They know where their donations come from.

When the local CoE primary school started presenting creationism as the alternative view, fully justified as giving children the full range blah blah the local diocese gave a mealy mouthed response which changed nothing. They know where their donations come from.

The C of E doesn’t advocate creationism and is against it being taught in schools...

The C of E doesn’t advocate creationism and is against it being taught in schools...

Yes I know this, that was my point.

However at local level they are getting substantial funding and activism from an evangelical group. Hence my comparison with momentum. What the CoE advocates in education is immaterial if the local diocese does not enforce

If this school is actively, actually promoting the idea that Christianity is right and all the other flavours of superstition are wrong, then you need to complain straight away. Start with the governors, and if they are no use take it to the LA.
Yes, all UK schools are technically supposed to peddle a certain amount of Christian crap but (particularly in diverse areas, where there are going to be Sikh/Muslim/Jewish/Hindu pupils as well as kids from rational families) they are not supposed to do it in a way which basically tells little kids that their family worldview and culture is wrong. Even actual faith-based schools aren't supposed to actively criticize or denigrate other myth systems, especially if they have pupils whose families (whether sincerely or just nominally) subscribe to those myth systems.
I work in education, and live and work in a very diverse area, where all the RC/CofE schools have at least 30% pupils from non-Christian families and, mostly, do their best to accomodate this rather than encouraging pupils to discriminate against each other.

I hate the message 'it's a faith school put up with it' . It's not right that a child has to go to a religious school. I think if a small village or town only has faith based schools, then that status should be removed and changed to full state school. People can't just uproot their lives because historically churches provided schooling and that archaic practice hasn't been changed. In a lot of rural areas there are no alternatives to religious schools and it is not ok for people to be forced to send their children to a religious school if they aren't religious (especially as most people are not religious now and don't attend church)

I think it's much more important to teach diversity and understanding of all faiths. As for the 'one true faith' issue I'd got to the board of governors with it or even Ofsted as surely that isn't allowed!

The "lots of people move for primary schools, if you don't like the school move house, simple"

Yes because selling/buying/finding a new rental is so cheap and easy

• Report them to the diocese.

Good luck with that*

I know not all Diocese's are as good as each other. I also know mine would put on subtle pressure and send in the inspectors. But I also know other areas have massively failed people.
I still don't know how a Vicar has that much time - rurally they normally cover a lot of Churches and have quite a workload.

*Yes because that’s what the C of E (y’know, Protestants) are famous for isn’t it?

Maybe you should google Martin Luther.*

Actually it was the non-christians who stick up for this shit that I was referring to here.

Giving your average church goer credit for the reformation over 600 years ago though - slightly tenuous don't you think? Might as well give me credit for the Battle of Hastings.

I still don't know how a Vicar has that much time - rurally they normally cover a lot of Churches and have quite a workload

I agree. And where there is a high dependence on volunteers to get things done there is a higher risk that activist groups will take control. This happens in political parties as well as religious organisations. That said the increasing influence of fundamentalism in Christian schools is something more recent in my experience in the UK

This is what the CofE schools round here are like, hence why I didn't even view them.

Although the right and wrong thing is racist and awful.

So MaisyPops you're both A: and B:?

No-one here is surprised that a faith school has faith elements to it and it's totally disingenuous of you to try and make out that this is what the issue is. The point is that the Christians who promote this crap (and I'm happy to read that you aren't one) and the non-religious apologists for the Christians who promote this crap are almost as bad as each other - in fact I probably have more time for the former as at least they've got up off their arses to do something rather than just sitting there with their hands over their ears.

PS - calling out shit rules\laws\traditions does not make you an anarchist. Sadly there are lots of people here, especially on the schools threads, who take any kind of criticism of school policy as if you are taking the first step to dragging everyone off to David Davies' Mad Max-style dystopia.

This is why I sent my children to the only local primary which isn't a CofE or Catholic school. It means we have to walk miles every day and my friends thought I was being a 'snob' who didn't want my kids in with theirs (it also happens our school gets better results but that honestly was not why I chose it, I would have chosen it in principle if it had the lowest frankly as I disagree with compulsory religious schooling). I appreciate you don't have this option though, OP which I think is awful. You could legally opt to withdraw them from religious instruction, assemblies, and RE lessons I suppose, but that may leave them feeling very singled out?

I feel sorry for people giving the OP a hard time because we have a similar situation here; every primary school within a 10 mile radius is either C of E or Catholic. We are neither. My DDs went to a village primary school that took the kids to the local church once each week for assembly. The vicar was a bit "fire & brimstone" and I know some of the younger kids were a bit scared of him.

When my kids were 8 & 6, DH was taken very seriously ill on holiday and was on life-support. I emailed the Head to explain the situation that we would not be back for the start of the school year and could she please explain to the DDs' classmates where they were. Almost by return, the vicar sent me the most lovely message, non-religious but utterly caring and compassionate. I have to say I was stunned and really impressed. DH recovered and we were back a few days into term. The vicar emailed again saying how pleased he was that we were ok and he was here for all of us "as part of the school community".

We had no problem with the girls going to church and taking part in assemblies etc. Like others have said, we provided balance at home and said that they were free to choose what they wanted to believe. Both are keen singers and have sung in countless church/cathedral services with their school, thoroughly enjoying the experience. However, to them it's a performance and nothing more. When the vicar retired, one of the parent governors suggested bringing in her evangelical church youth workers to lead worship. My then 10 year old asked some very pointed questions and tied the poor young chap in verbal knots - she thought it was hysterical (always been a challenging young lady). Parents complained and the evangelism was watered down.

I have taught in 2 faith schools (secondary). One was aggressively C of E and had the most appallingly behaved arrogant kids and bullying, judgmental and homophobic staff (especially the ones in dog collars!) The Head was fine when I told him I was not religious but would not do anything to undermine the ethos of the school, however, other staff were less understanding, even though they had nobody else to teach my subject! The other was a Catholic school which appointed a Head with more conservative faith views. The kids hated him and he left after a term. He was always fine with me, but I was only there once a week.

To the OP, I found our local diocese to be toothless and rather pathetic in terms of their support. The only time they showed their true colours was when we were appointing a new Head and they rubbished the overwhelmingly amazing candidate because he couldn't say when Pentecost was. If appointed, I would have thought he would have worked with the local church but this was enough for him not to get the job. It was then that I decided to resign from the governing body because the Church wanted its way over one thing but would not offer other support to the school. The diocese should have guidelines on what is age-appropriate and it might be worth getting hold of these and then comparing them with what your school is promoting.

Finally, have a look at the last SIAS report for the school and perhaps push for another one.

a picture of a sign was put up in class with a list of many faiths all pointing the ‘wrong’ way and only christianity pointing the ‘right’ way

I'm a teacher and find this very concerning. You could contact your local education department about this, as I am sure that this is not allowed under the RE section of the National Curriculum. You could even contact Ofsted about it.

I teach at a C of E school and the children learn about all the major world religions. The local vicar does assemblies but the children are never taught that Christianity is 'right', just that this is what some people believe.

It is the new wave of evangelism which is the problem. Your old traditional C of E, very tolerant of everyone, a few hymns and some of the bible in RE was never a problem for anyone. It is the low church, born again, evangelical lot who have a radical agenda against things like abortion and want women to serve men, hate the idea of women priests etc etc which is so strong in the USA is very much what some people are now up against and because they are so enthusiastic about it all they tend to be more vocal than most other normal CofE people who are lucky if they make it to church once a month.

The free schools movement is just for these kind of cases - if there are other parents like you in the area, find them, get in touch with the New Schools Network, and see if you can start a secular school.

I am always astonished at the level of “I’m all right, Jack” ery on faith school threads. And the ability to believe completely contradictory things simultaneously - there’s so little religion in faith schools that non religious people will barely notice it BUT the religious element in faith schools is so super important to people of faith that they can’t possibly let go of it. Which is it?

One of the reasons I pushed DS' dad into becoming a parent governor when DS started school was i had already heard of this business of nutters overrunning school governing boards to peddle a dangerous agenda (because too many people CBA to take it up themselves.)

The free schools movement is just for these kind of cases

No it isn't - you cannot start a free school on the basis that it will be 'secular'. Even if you have grounds and buildings available you have no right to open a free school - you can only apply.

And why the hell should taxpayers have to open their own bloody school to get a secular or at least non-evangelical education?

ZBIsabella is spot on in terms of my area - what were tolerant community CofE schools have become evangelical distortions of what I grew up around.

Actually, if the free school movement is for anyone, it should be for the people who want to add something to education, like religion, rather than those of us who just want education......

SoMaisyPopsyou're both A: and B:?
No but thanks for essentially calling me an idiot who doesn't believe in challenging authorty.

Not sure hiw you come to that when:

1. I'm a Christian who would happily see all schools
2. Said if the school is failing it its duty to respect people of all and no faith then it should be challenged
3. People would be more than reasonable to campaign against having faith

and yet saying 'as it stands the potential for varying degrees of broadly christian religious elements is part of all schools so it's not like you avoid it moving schools and that people whining about faith schools containing faith' must make me an ignorant person who blindly accepts authority.

As with almost anything school related, I am all for people raising queries/concerns and as in politics they should petition etc on things thry wish to see changed. I just don't really get the point of calling up a faith school to complain thry have faith elements. It's seems a ridiculous waste of time and all a bit 'i'm annoyed with the system so i'll go and vent at the school' l.

*1. I'm a Christian who would happily see all schoolssecular

Sorry. New samsubg update seems to delete the last word on lines when i press enter without a space. Very odd.