School becoming increasingly religious alongside loss of staff...

[Atheistmum]

NC for this as the details will be potentially outing.

So both my DC ages 6 and 10 attend a local state C of E primary school.

We have only two schools in the small town in which we live, the large C of E and another small Catholic one. Having been educated through the Catholic school system Myself, I was keen to avoid a ‘faith’ education for my kids however we have no secular option in this town or indeed in any of the local smaller surrounding towns and villages. So we were stuck with opting for the educationally ‘outstanding’ C of E school.

Until recently all has been well, the expected low level religious the,es woven in, however a new head was appointed about a year ago, and since then 6 or 7 members of staff have left including the deputy and assistant head and another Head of year all put down to ‘ people moving on to further their careers’.

In this time there has also been an increasing religious emphahsis underpinning an awful lot of what is done at the school, All assemblies are now religious based, local vicar comes in to school multiple times per week to teach, both of my kids come home singing what sound like evangelical christian songs!!

My eldest told me about a lesson wherby a picture of a sign was put up in class with a list of many faiths all pointing the ‘wrong’ way and only christianity pointing the ‘right’ way, he was actively concerned about this as there are kids of others faiths who have no choice but to attend the school!

Now my AIBU is basically aibu to email concerns about this, who to and how can I word it? I realise that the school is controlled to a certain extent by the church ( i fundamentally disagree with schools being used to indoctrinate young people but given we have no other option I am stuck with this) and l can live with it if its just about learning about and participating in mainstream stuff like easter, harvest festival, nativity etc however more and more of the kids learning is being based on religious content and I am really uncomfortable with this.

The head himself is obviously a deeply religious man and I am concerned that he is using the school to further his agenda.

My eldest told me about a lesson wherby a picture of a sign was put up in class with a list of many faiths all pointing the ‘wrong’ way and only christianity pointing the ‘right’ way, he was actively concerned about this as there are kids of others faiths who have no choice but to attend the school!
This.
This is how terrorism is indoctrinated. I'd be kicking up a storm about any religions been taught in school it all comes down to segregation and hatred. Its 2018 FGS.

It’s more than 90%, C8. The state are responsible for 90% of the building cost and 100% of the running costs. The amount the church pays into a VA school is minimal and in many they make this up by asking parents for a ‘voluntary’ contribution rather than the church paying for it.

If there is no alternative provision nearby OP, you might find that a significant proportion of the other parents agree with you. A large body of parents continually complaining to the head and governing body might just have more impact than just one or two people making individual complaints.

Most church schools in this country are built on land owned by the church, which also makes a contribution to the running of the school. This is heavily subsidised by the LEA because otherwise the LEA would have to build more schools of its own.

This old canard. The church funds exactly none of the running costs of schools. It provides a tiny amount - less than 10%, and increasingly none of the capital costs.

Why should those schools abandon their religious ethos to suit people who have no religion?

Because they are funded almost entirely by a population where 90% do not attend Christian churches regularly, and have somehow managed to wrangle an exemption in law that allows them to practise religious discrimination against four year olds. Which is pretty disgusting.

The government has offered a real alternative for people who are not happy - free schools. If you start your own free school OP then you too can promote your own agenda

The government has offered no such alternative. You have admitted you know that secular schools are prohibited.

How practical is it for ordinary working people to set up a free school? You know full well it’s not a ‘real alternative’. It’s strongly weighted towards existing education providers including the churches.

So much dishonesty in a single post. Quite impressive.

Sometimes there are anti Semitic and islamiphobia remarks however. To deny that it doesn't happen is disingenuous. There are often deletions.

I think that’s a reasonable statement, but people criticising the tenets of those faith are often called those names, just as those who question or criticise the tenets or practices of Christianity (as distinct from Christians themselves) are accused of ‘Christian-bashing’.

Most church schools in this country are built on land owned by the church, which also makes a contribution to the running of the school.
Bollocks.
The land is owned by the Council
The funding comes through general taxation.
The accounts of most schools are online.
The asset registers of all councils are online.

I shouldn't even read these church school threads, they depress me so much. To begin with, yes it's utterly outrageous that your only choice should be to suck up an evangelically religious education for your children, funded by the taxpayer, or to home school or move house. But even more depressing is some of the deep-rooted mindless conformism on this thread. I can understand evangelical christians liking the situation, but this 'it's a christian school what did you expect, if you don't like it suck it up or move house' is just brainless. We are actually allowed to complain about situations that we feel are unfair and unworkable! Luckily we live in a country where if enough people feel similarly, we might have half a chance at changing things. If it were down to half the people on this thread, we probably wouldn't have the vote yet. 'Oh suck it up buttercup, women aren't allowed the vote, you know that. Move somewhere else if you want a say in things.'

Agreed frog

Every single thread where the idea that religion might be holding us back somewhat and could benefit from some revision or reform prompts the same old responses.

No one forced you to use the c of e school.

Scampifry

No one forced you to use the c of e school

Thanks for that scampi.

🤨

@scampifry
No one forced you to use the c of e school.
What schools SHOULD they use then?

In any religion there are different ways in which doctrine is interpreted. I am of the more laid back end of Christianity and would be horrified if my children were given a lesson that implied that other faiths were wrong, second best etc.

However, I do know that some branches - tend to be evangelical or free churches not CofE - will say exactly that sort of thing. If you went to any number of student unions in the 90s/00s you would have found them filled with such people. The funky hymns would fit with an evangelical type church too. Next thing you will find out that the sex education is all based on abstinence and sex before marriage is wicked etc.

However actually one of the other local church schools might not be of this ilk at all and be like your school used to be. In short I would challenge the school over that lesson too and escalate if an appropriate response was not received.

Illustrating my point perfectly scampi It's the apparent total lack of reflection that gets me. Can people not engage their brain for even a single second before posting?!!

I'm a staunch follower of atheism

Oh dear.

It's really not that hard. In fact, it's so simple even the most brain-scrambled could figure it out if they cared to.

We are a remarkably diverse country. Virtually every religion in current existence is represented here....as well as the more than half of us who have no religion.

So, how to ensure equality and fairness in education that we all pay for without putting anyone in the uncomfortable position of feeling like their personal belief is less important to the government than others?

Hmmmm. That's a head scratcher.

Well, we could try taking it out of schools altogether. Teach about religion and allow children the space and freedom to think for themselves. Seems like a plan to me.

Better than "Give up your job and start your own school, OP" or "Tough shit if you don't like your child talking to my imaginary sky man. My beliefs are so precious you can either suck it up of fuck off".

Have a similar issue. All C of E schools in my town as well. I am not religious and disagree with religious institutions being involved in education, I mentioned his to my neighbour a retired C of E deputy headteacher and her view was that all the church does is own the property and land and has no day to day involvement. However at our school they are very keen on creating "godly children" makes me shudder but I don't have a choice.

OP have you visited any of the other CofE or Catholic schools that are in driving distace to you, seeing that the nearest non demoninational school is too far.
You may find one that is more like your school used to be before the new head took over. I'd move my kids if they were being taught that other religions are wrong.

Free Schools are not allowed to be secular.... she’d have to have her daily act of worship but apart from that five minutes each day, she’d be free to set her own

Again JaniceBattersby NO. A secular school couldn't promote themselves as having superior secular morality, be able to specify secular teachers, prioritise secular pupils in the admissions process, stop a new head teacher from implementing their personal religious preferences and all the other privileges that faith schools have.

Those people parroting 'well it's a christian school, what did you expect' are either:
A: Christians
B: Have been taught not to question authority\the status quo\much of anything really

I never get the 'never question authority' claims regarding schools on here. It's rhe same as 'expect child to follow a rule you might not personally like is obviously draconian bullying and pushing for blind obedience'.

The alternative to your false dichotomy is that there are people perfectly capable of having their personal views about the role of religion in school, whilst also pointing out that it's hardly surprising a faith school speaks about the faith.

I'm Christian. I believe religious worship has no place in schools and would happily have no faith schools but RE should continue to be a statutory requirement so that children are exposed to a range of ideas and have empathy with other views.
Despite those personal views, the fact remains that a faith school in an education system where there has to be broadly Christian acts of worship is going ti have faith references. Of course, it would be more than reasonable to challenge the law, raise issues if a school is failing in its duty etc. It's not reasonable to complain to a faith school that they have faith elements.

My eldest told me about a lesson wherby a picture of a sign was put up in class with a list of many faiths all pointing the ‘wrong’ way and only christianity pointing the ‘right’ way

Report them to the diocese. That would break the C of Es own interfaith guidelines. If it happened that is.

B: Have been taught not to question authority\the status quo\much of anything really

Yes because that’s what the C of E (y’know, Protestants) are famous for isn’t it?

Maybe you should google Martin Luther.

I've never met any atheists who refer to atheism as a 'belief'. Quite the opposite actually

I’m a staunch follower of atheism. Oh dear

I know, irony right? The hardest of all the concepts to grasp

the fact remains that a faith school in an education system where there has to be broadly Christian acts of worship is going ti have faith references

There is a huge difference between faith schools which are low key and broad spectrum and those which evangelically shove factual nonsense at the pupils. Unless people have a choice its impossible to justify taxes funding the latter.

Its a pity as I know church schools (RC and CoE) which juggle their own ethos and a broad spectrum intake very well. However the batshittery in schools taken over by evangelical wings has shifted my view on tax funded religious schools unless the rules change dramatically. This is absolutely a recent trend in my experience, especially in CoE schools.

Our area has one CoE and one RC school. The RC has remained pretty consistent, its always had a very mixed intake socially and ethnically. The CoE school used to be a bit skewed to white MC but not desperately out of proportion with its local catchment. It has become the type of evangelical school described by the OP including a stab at teaching creationism. This coincides with evangelical activists taking over key roles in the local church and shifting its entire character.

In effect to attend the CoE high school (which by plan covers all non RC Christian denominations) you have to attend the local CoE primary. This forces practicing Christians into an Evangelical or entirely secular path. Rather like many Labour voters are forced into Momentum or nothing by a handful of activists (a comparison made to me by more than one of the long term Anglican worshippers locally). So whilst this area is urban and therefore has a choice, most Christians have lost their choice in practice as the CoE schools have become narrow and bigoted. In a rural area this loss of choice would affect non Christians as well

There is no justification to spend a brass farthing of tax payers money on state schools in this situation