School becoming increasingly religious alongside loss of staff...

[Atheistmum]

NC for this as the details will be potentially outing.

So both my DC ages 6 and 10 attend a local state C of E primary school.

We have only two schools in the small town in which we live, the large C of E and another small Catholic one. Having been educated through the Catholic school system Myself, I was keen to avoid a ‘faith’ education for my kids however we have no secular option in this town or indeed in any of the local smaller surrounding towns and villages. So we were stuck with opting for the educationally ‘outstanding’ C of E school.

Until recently all has been well, the expected low level religious the,es woven in, however a new head was appointed about a year ago, and since then 6 or 7 members of staff have left including the deputy and assistant head and another Head of year all put down to ‘ people moving on to further their careers’.

In this time there has also been an increasing religious emphahsis underpinning an awful lot of what is done at the school, All assemblies are now religious based, local vicar comes in to school multiple times per week to teach, both of my kids come home singing what sound like evangelical christian songs!!

My eldest told me about a lesson wherby a picture of a sign was put up in class with a list of many faiths all pointing the ‘wrong’ way and only christianity pointing the ‘right’ way, he was actively concerned about this as there are kids of others faiths who have no choice but to attend the school!

Now my AIBU is basically aibu to email concerns about this, who to and how can I word it? I realise that the school is controlled to a certain extent by the church ( i fundamentally disagree with schools being used to indoctrinate young people but given we have no other option I am stuck with this) and l can live with it if its just about learning about and participating in mainstream stuff like easter, harvest festival, nativity etc however more and more of the kids learning is being based on religious content and I am really uncomfortable with this.

The head himself is obviously a deeply religious man and I am concerned that he is using the school to further his agenda.

My children go to a very Jesussy state primary school. It was CoE or catholic as our most accessible.

When they came home talking about the seven day creation myth as fact I counter balanced it with evolution. It seems to have made both of them more logical and determined to find a scientific evidence based answer to questions so I’m not arsed. I just tell them to respectful to other people’s beliefs.

I would contact the National Secular Society for advice. One of their campaigns is on stopping overt evangelism in state schools, and they have had some success, but I think it is easier if it is external groups coming in to proselytise, rather than the head teacher or other staff within the school. They will certainly know what the rules are and the best way to express your objections:

www.secularism.org.uk/evangelism-in-schools/

Humanists UK might also be helpful: humanism.org.uk/campaigns/schools-and-education/faith-schools/

You might find support and guidance on Humanists UK’s website.

We were lucky enough to live in a rural area with some non-denominated state schools, so we took that into account when choosing where to live. But it’s clearly a problem that not everyone can make that’s kind of choice.

I'm a Christian and can see how this situation is tricky, I think a lot of Christian parents would find it difficult too. Unfortunately it seems reasonably coming for staff to leave when the leadership of a school changes. It may not be down to the changes in the Christian focus of the school but is concerning whatever the cause. If there was a non-faith school nearby of course going there would be a logical option for you but there isn't.

IMO Christian schools who serve families of other faiths or none should be respectful of this whilst creating an environment with Christian principles. One of the difficulties here is while you seem to make a distinction between nativities, harvest festivals etc and evangelical songs a lot of Christians (including perhaps the HT) perhaps wouldn't and would see them all just as Christian worship. The right/wrong visual would concern as not being in line with providing a respectful environment for children of other faiths or none.

I guess you need to find out what the guidelines are for schools like this and then work out whether they are acting appropriately.

Yanbu OP.

There shouldn’t BE any faith schools at all.

Those of you saying this is fine - I assume you’re Christian? How would you feel if the only school you could take you kids to was an Islamic school?

The point is there are NO OTHER schools. She has no choice but to send her kids to a school that’s religious. That’s shocking.

And he point about them saying other religions are wrong: ffs this is how it starts. ”you are the chosen one true believers, better than the Muslims/Jews/atheists/catholics/Protestants etc etc.” Create superiority, dehumanise the Other and bang: you set the stage for sectarian conflict, because your opponents /the Other are not really human.

Of kids can grow up together in mixed schools, being taught that everyone believes different stuff and looks different but that we are all human and need to get along, wed be reducing conflict epically.

You sent them to a c of e school and don’t like the fact Christianity is encouraged?!
it’s quite simple... if you don’t want them to be Christians; move them from the school.

I am sure you feel the same about Muslim Faith schools and would be demanding that the girls and boys were not taught that it was immodest for girls to wear short skirts and have free flowing hair on show.

I also doubt that there are no state schools in OPs area. The CofE is near, nice, (full of "nice" kids), and reated highly be OFSTED. Of course she wants her kids to go.

Probably being run on Church Land as is often the case, (and therefore not compeltely state funded)

Thewomen its already been made clear that its a lot more complicated than that.

Im genuinelt interest3 in hearing from parents who are practising christians and happily send their kids to faith schools, if that school wer somsrhow to be ‘taken over’ by another, quite different religion, would you still maintain that it is fair and that thr onus would be on you to find an alternative (even if there was no alternative, it just didnt exist as in our case)

Well, that isn't the same thing because there would have been an actual change in the type of school. This school has just become more the thing it always was supposed to be.
However, I don't think you are being unreasonable to be concerned, especially as you didn't make an actual choice, but rather a forced choice, to send your DC to a CofE school in the first place and presumably you are not alone in that.
What I would do is try to get some 'evidence' like the poster about wrong faiths and see if you can find out for example if more curriculum time is being given to RE. I would ask to meet the head and raise your concerns. I'm afraid though that if you are right and he is driving staff away with his belligerent Christianity (not necessarily the case, but quite possible) then I don't know how likely it is to have any effect, but you can but try...

There's a few things that need clarifying before you get annoyed:

1. Every school needs to have an act if worship which is broadly christian. My school is not religious. We still have people of different faiths and philosophies in to speak, but it is mainly Christian. It's more thought for the day like on radio 4 (here is something in the world... it's a bit like in this faith where believers of that faith suggest...). Staff assemblies are usually on the themes of hard work, inspirational people, being grateful, having ambitions, being a nice person, helping those less fortunate.

1. Is it more time for RE because the timetable is being crammed or is it more time for RE because the previous head sidelined other subjects in favour of maths/english/science?

1. You have no idea why people have left and are unreasonabke for speculating. My school has had a spell of high turnover. We've also had a number of people get promotions and a number go on maternity leave then decide on a career break.

If the school are being intolerant of other faiths then it's an issue. If they aren't teaching the curriculum, it's an issue.

But other than that i'm afraid you're being irritated over nothing. Non faith schools can and do have religious elements. Unless thr law is changed then that is a fact of life

Every school needs to have an act if worship which is broadly christian
Technically yes, in reality they don't.

Oh, for fuck's sake...what is WRONG with people?

"You chose a religious school...move her or put up and shut up". How ignorant and shortsighted.

We are talking about STATE FUNDED EDUCATION in which a child is being taught bigotry...."This religion is right, all the ofhers are wrong". You have to be several shades of stupid not to understand the problem with this.

OP, ignore the thickos. You are right to be concerned. Start with the governors, if you have no success there go to the LA.

There are some bizarre posts on here. The OP has not "decided to send her children to a religious school." She has sent her children to her local primary school, which we are all paying for with our taxes so that all children get an education. It is not unreasonable to expect that school to keep the religious stuff to a minimum to accommodate the vast majority of the population of the UK who have other faiths or are not religious.

In the area I grew up in there were (and still are) no non-Christian schools. There was a C of E school in every village and a few kids got a minibus to the Catholic school in town. No other options. Where that is the case the schools need to acknowledge that they aren't just teaching children of that faith.

You have to be several shades of stupid not to understand the problem with this
OP, ignore the thickos.
Wow. What a helpful and constructive post...

People are pointing out the law and current situation. Not everyone agrees with the law, but thr fact remains it is the law.

julie
The way many schools get past it, like mine, is we hace regular assemblies which are on broadly Christian themes. E.g. 6th formers speaking to the children about charity work (it is a Christian principle but it's also general don't be a dickhead principle too)

Those of you saying this is fine - I assume you’re Christian? How would you feel if the only school you could take you kids to was an Islamic school?
You either have to accept it or you home school or you move to an area that has schools that accept your beliefs, in the same way that people move all the time to ensure that their children get into Outstanding schools and not the Must-Try-Harder ones.

I also doubt that there are no state schools in OPs area

These are state schools. Even if VA they are predominantly (85-90%) funded by the tax payer.

Where one of my siblings lives, the village school is CofE. So are the nearest neighbouring village schools.

The nearest non church schools would require a home based parent with transport who can devote most of their day to the school runs (if you have different age kids all starting and finishing at different times, different activities). And of course it means no local friends for the children.

Even then - the non church schools work on geographic catchments and fill up within a small proximity so there are no places available from areas deemed to have 'adequate provision'.

The only way to avoid a church school is to go private. In that situation its not appropriate for schools to take such an evangelical line and ignore needs of non religious or differently religious pupils.

You either have to accept it or you home school or you move to an area that has schools that accept your beliefs

Yes because its so easy to move house in rural areas where jobs are limited and wages tend to be low. People move to be near work, they should be able to attend a non bible thumping school considering they are already paying for schools through taxation.

yoi either accept It or you Home school or you move to an area that has schools that accept your beliefs.

Wow. So let me clarify:

1. Create religious ghettos
2. Quit your job and Home school
3. Accept indoctrination

Or just to put a wild crazy mad idea out there, and bear with me because this is really radical, how about expecting a country with state funded education to provide schooling for all children without bias towards any religion?

I know, I know it’s crazy. It’s madness to think that a school would be a place of learning that encourages social cohesion. Let’s just put all the catholics in one county, and all the Protestants in another, worked just smashing in Northern Ireland, and the Muslims can go over here in their little ghetto and so can the Jews.

Sorted! Everyone lives in their own little area, never mixes and indoctrinated their kids. Fabulous. It’s going to work beautifully what could possibly go wrong 🤦🏻‍♀️

Maisy And how helpful is irrelevant pap about how your child's school goes about things? Is the OP's child at your child's school? Nope.

It's called having choices - you make the one that either suits you best or inconveniences you the least depending on your preferences. Exactly the same as everything else in life. You can't always get exactly what you want. Strangely enough most people can cope with the idea that a CofE school is educating their Muslim / Jewish / atheist / Catholic / etc. child and don't feel the need to try and change it just to suit them. The local primary to me is Catholic but remarkably has lots of non-Catholic kids attending - those parents aren't demanding that hymns be dropped just because they don't like them.

Or, you can choose to disagree with how things are and attempt to change things. That starts with complaining.

*Nike
*
The OP had no choice. Sorry to highlight your lack of reading comprehension skills, but she's made this quite clear.

The problem here is not secularists hoping for equality of education & opportunity in state funded education. It's the entitled attitude of parents who seem to think their chosen brand of primitive mythology is so superior they get to have a school (funded by us all) dedicated to it.

those parents aren't demanding that hymns be dropped just because they don't like them.

Do you think they may take exception to being taught that their religion is wrong though Nike?