To find it outrageous that school inspects the DC's trousers

[BlackTrousersAreBlackTrousers]

And makes them change immediately into school regulation trousers if they are not the right 'cut'.

Black trousers are black trousers surely. DS wanted the 'skinny' type which are not actually skinny but less flappable than the standard fit. All the rage, plenty of DC wearing them. Store sells them as school trousers. They are school trousers.

School decides they are 'jeans'.

AIBU to think they should take their head out if their arse and concentrate on educating the DC rather than making them line up for 'inspection', as if they are army recruits?

Lower school HAS to wear trousers only sold by school uniform shop. They even put a colourful line down the side, like they are an army brass band, so they cannot sneak on reasonably priced trousers - £18 as opposed to £6 supermarket ones.

It is obscene. Why are they allowed to get away with it?

Before some idiot pipes up that I should disrupt DS's education by moving him if I don't like 'dem rulz', schools are a public SERVICE not a vehicle for boosting the ego of some limp dicked, power crazed twat .

It is teaching them to follow rules, as a life skill.Why do you think the armed forces have all those over-the-top nit-picky kit requirements for their recruits?You don't want to find someone can't follow rules and procedures when they are servicing a tank for example

Basic rules' shouldn't cost £300 a pop.
I agree.
Sadly, until the idiots in life get the head around buying readily available affordable uniform rather than caving to whatever their DC thinks is the coolest thing to wear, schools will continue to be prescriptive.

We have a simple and affordable uniform. Only 2 pieces are school specific (blazer and tie). Everything else can be bought wherever you like.
The overwhelming majority of our parents are fantastic reasonable people who understand that buying skinny trousers when the uniform says not to is only teaching your child they are special and exempt from rules they don't like. There are still a minority who act like wearing a pair of school shoes is some kind of human rights abuse and a sign of power mad schools being meanies. We hold our uniform line.

A school I used to work in had all sorts of issues with trainers, stretchy micro skirts, hoodies etc. A much higher number of parents were in the 'but my DC is wearing X and a short skirt doesn't affect learning' group. The school is now almost entirely single supplier.

What's the difference between my current school and a former school? Current school parents get basic rules. Former school their DC were too unique to follow rules they didn't like and it became an increasing culture in the school from uniform to homework to work ethic.

'Learning to follow rules' is actually the opposite of a life skill. Learning to look at rules critically, decide which ones are bullshit and set about getting them removed is a far better one.

There are eight state high schools in this county. The best one has very strict uniform rules. I can recognise a pupil from there from behind. I think school standards start with discipline, and discipline starts with uniform.

However insisting on ‘special’ items, which are more expensive, is really counter productive. All items should be available at high street stores/supermarkets.

are obsessed with their own weird 1950s wank fantasies about when the poor were obedient and knew their place.
yes, uniforms is all about keeping the poor in their place. I give you Eton:
And remind me what Prince George has to wear to school?

I don't know about private school, but all my local state schools have second-hand sales, so no-one has to pay full price for a uniform anyway.

Posters who think it's clever to blindly question authority remind me of the morons who get caught at customs abroad and end up in foreign jails because they didn't like to follow the stupid rules of the country they were holidaying in.

ReanimatedSGB
I'm all for students challenging things and raising issues.
Our school have changed lots off the back of students raising things.

I still have no time for the parents acting as petulant children taking the approach of but skinny trousers are cool and I don't like the uniform. It's stupud so you don't have to following darling.

That doesn't create articulate childreb who know how/when to raise issues. More often than not it nurtures the type of argumentative PITA behaviour which holds up lessons whilst Timmy decides he wants to argue over any little thibg he doesn't like safe in the knowledge that his parenta will say it's the teacher holding up learning, not timmy. They shouldn't waste time on rules. He was just asking them to justify their bullying

The main difference between uniform in schools and work places is that you get to choose what profession you take up, it's your choice if you picked a job that requires a uniform or suit. Children have no choice. I've yet to find a school anywhere near where I live that does not require a uniform apart from one special school that has an optional uniform. I much preferred the schools that did not have uniforms when I was a child (I changed schools quite often due to parental whim and moving), the enforced dresses/skirts were awful when having to sit down with crossed legs, I hated the idea of anyone seeing my knickers.

@ReanimatedSGB
'Learning to follow rules' is actually the opposite of a life skill. Learning to look at rules critically, decide which ones are bullshit and set about getting them removed is a far better one.

By all means do that, but if you break those rules (before they get removed), you take the consequences.

If they're denim they're jeans. Cotton are trousers

There are eight state high schools in this county. The best one has very strict uniform rules. I can recognise a pupil from there from behind. I think school standards start with discipline, and discipline starts with uniform.

Meh - I live in a very small US state, and one high school in it is in the top 15 in the US.

It has no uniform. No dress code. Kids go to class in pajama bottoms and whatever top was clean. They aren't allowed to wear flipflops if it's snowing - that's about it for dress codes.

But then they're not particularly interested in discipline either. They're interested in stretching kids and making them think. They have no interest in churning out kids who follow rules blindly.

Posters who think it's clever to blindly question authority remind me of the morons who get caught at customs abroad and end up in foreign jails because they didn't like to follow the stupid rules of the country they were holidaying in.

what has that to do with school uniform?

School uniform is actually far better for education than non-uniform, as it prevents students using their clothes and shoes to show off or one-up each other. Non uniform days used to involve hideous bullying of those who didn't have the latest/trendiest stuff when I was at school (12yrs ago)

Buy the stuff on the list, stop trying to get around the rules because your little darlings will be 'more comfortable'. It's bullshit.

Every job I've ever had has had a strict uniform or dress code, school is good practice for this. The eejit who started work last week came in on their first day with newly dyed bright blue hair, despite the clear uniform rules stating this would not be appropriate. Cue tantrum from eejit as to how it didn't affect work. But it DOES! It's the blatant inability to follow rules and instructions and looks ridiculous when in a customer facing role.

It is fine to challenge rules - but you do this through the correct channels and yes,mew should teach our children to think critically and how to voice disatisfaction and how to positively achieve change.

This parent could have written to the school objecting to trousers lower down the school from one supplier. She could have explained the expense issue and requested that they reconsider. She could have asked her child to do the same. That is a constructive approach.

A parent deciding that their child doesn't need to follow the rules and buying the wrong stuff isn't supporting the school, is setting the child up to be in trouble and to decide further rules can be ignored and certainly isn't teaching them about critically assessing and how to voice disatisfaction in a constructive way at all.

As another poster said upthread, in schools where lots of parents take this kind of approach and don't support the school, we see that ever stricter uniforms are adopted to remove any form of ambiguity - because people in such schools abuse any slight ambiguity. If OP and other parents continue like this, it won't just be the lower school trousers which are a rigid style from one supplier, but all of the uniform.

And when that happens, those parents will never in a million years be able to see the connection between what has happened with uniform and their role in making it happen.

The school is not the enemy. Why make every little thing into a battle and teach children that they need to fight and struggle against every authority and rule?

*@Ructation But then they're not particularly interested in discipline either. They're interested in stretching kids and making them think. *

Would genuinely love to know how that works with a child who spends the best part of a lesson disrupting others learning by making noises, having a conversation across a classroom whilst the teacher is talking, and walks out the room when they feel like it!

brown
Because the issue isn't the details of uniform, it's the attitude of ^I am so special I can ignore rules I don't like / My DC is so special they can have fashion items instead of uniform or don't have to follow rules they don't like'.

The attitude is the issue, not uniform.

The types of people who buy their child trainers when the uniform clearly says school shoes would be the type of people who in a dress code non-uniform school would decide to ignore elements of thr dress code. They are the type of people who call up to challenge a detention because 'my child was only...'

They're just the type of people who have a massive chip about any type of authority and think they're a bit unique. I can take or leave uniform but find adults sounding like stroppy teens about how rules are unfair is just a bit odd.

I'm only going to say it once because you can't argue with stupid and these threads do tend to spiral into the abyss.

Schools, are not a 'service' to parents - they are there to provide an education to all young people in this country. Part of that education is the ability to follow rules....full stop. There really is nothing more to be said on the matter. If you don't agree with the rules, then raise it with the governors through the proper channels, teach your children that it is ok not to agree with something, but there are appropriate ways to challenge things which doesn't mean just flouting the rules. Imagine if someone gets into their car having had a bit too much to drink and is then involved in an accident, the police on investigation find the person to be over the drink drive limit but only by 10 units. The driver could argue that the limit doesn't apply to them and it's a stupid rule because last week they were twice the limit and fine........and before someone tells me it's not a good comparison - it is, it's an arbitrary rule for one size fits all for the sake of simplicity. Some peoples body composition and metabolism would make them quite capable of driving just over the limit whilst another person only needs a fraction of the 'legal amount' for their driving to be impaired. Society doesn't function on a one rule for one and another for someone else.......

School uniform costs are excessive, but actually, look in the mirror. It is because of people who flout uniform rules that schools have got so fed up and started insisting uniform is purchased from a particular shop and covered in logos- that's to make day to day rule enforcement easier, you have yourself and the generations of people like you to blame. Marketing in shops is difficult/confusing for some people as increasingly non uniform items are being sold as 'school uniform' but common sense tells us that only the school can dictate what the uniform is.......I mean you wouldn't turn up to your new job it McDonalds in a tesco uniform and say 'well I bought it as a work uniform'........would you?

DC's school has 1 style of trousers, and 1 style of skirt. All other items are generic, school sew-on blazer badge and school tie available v. cheaply.

It frees up time massively, because it is binary and non-arguable (rather than 'well, it SAID school uniform at the shop...') - and both identified styles are cheap.

The school is amenable to rational argument ('DS, why are you not wearing the standard trousers?' 'They are not made in my size (at that point, 26" waist, 36" inside leg)' 'OK') but not at all to fashion-related argument 'Sir, they're all the rage, everyone is wearing them'.

Lax / nonexistent school uniform would be OK IF:

• All styles / clothes acceptable for wear cost the same, and are equally accessible to children from all backgrounds and
• Nobody judged the school on the appearance of their pupils.

The latter is a peculiarly British thing: it is very, very common to a school with 'smart' uniform to be perceived as 'good, with good discipline' and one with a lax uniform to be perceived as 'poor, with poor discipline' (and one with plaid kilts for girls as 'very good, and private'). If we could decouple school quality and uniform neatness in public perception, then schools would not need to have petty uniform rules - but while there is such a strong perceived link, it is no wonder that schools strive to maintain uniform standards.

It is obvious from posters above that there are biases about 'children in neat uniforms can't be creative', which are not in any way factually based but can drive school practice in this area.

I agree with you totally, I can never understand why schools add school badges to jumpers so you have to buy them from the school rather than the high street and they double the price. If I was you i would send your daughter in what ever you think is appropriate and take it up with the headmaster if school complains.

brownelephant
it's exactly the same mindset for these people who believe that rules do not apply to them, and that because they think the rules are stupid, they can get away with flouting them and making a sad face in the DM when their childish and petulant behaviour is not tolerated.

ChocolateWombat
I agree.

We can keep our sensible uniform because the overwhelming majority of our parents have enough sense to follow simple rules like 'black non skinny trousers and black school shoes' and don't send their kids in with fake nails etc.
If we call home and say 'hi parent, just to let you know your DC has been coming in wearing trainers but there's no note from you' then parents say 'thank you for telling us. We'll have a word. Get back in touch if it happens again'.

It's hardly rocket science. Simple rules followed by school and home.

Parents also say they like the fact we are stricy because it means they can say 'no' in the shops with confidence that but muuum everyone else is... isn't the case.

saska reading newspapers (foreign ones as well) people from non school uniform nations are not (proportionally) more often punished abroad for not following laws/rules.
if anything, brits have a bit of a reputation...

Whether uniform aids learning or not, really isn't the point here. This particular school has chosen to have a uniform. If OP doesn't like the policy and thinks uniforms make no impact on learning, she has been free to write and express this view and to try to bring about change. She has been free to encourage her DC to do this too. That would be fine and a constructive way to approach the issue.

Just deciding not to support the school policy and buying the DC the wrong uniform is not a constructive way to voice an objection to school uniform. It's simply a way of saying to the school and telling your child, that school rules don't need to apply to them. They are a special case who should be able to choose what to wear......which then spills over into the parental and Childs approach to other rules too.

Voice your objections to the uniform policy constructively or put up and shut up.

It's funny isn't it how once parents and their children get pulled up over uniform or sticking to school rules on homework or behaviour or whatever, that suddenly the parent has a moral objection to the rule or decides the school is domineering and dictatorial ......but these moral objections or complaints had never been voiced before. It's just people who want things their own way and can't see why they should have to follow the rules and think exceptions should be made for them. There are some of those people everywhere, and you just have to hope your child isn't in a school with too many of them, because to be honest, lots of parents and children with that approach make delivering a good education almost impossible for any school.

I remember the horrors of having a market jumper rather than the school one or even a puma jumper. I wish they had stricter uniform rules when I was at school

people from non school uniform nations
Non-school uniforms doesn't mean a no-rule school, and complete freedom on your clothes/ hairstyle or make-up.

I didn't really mean a number of smug "rule breaker" more about a general attitude.

Someone is trying to get in the Daily Mail

You choose the school. it has a uniform, end of. Don't like it go to a different school.

If parents used the proper school uniform then schools wouldn't have to check it. FFS Your the problem.