To hope that we can follow Iceland in banning male circumcision

[GladAllOver]

It really is time that this nasty practice is stopped.
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/18/iceland-ban-male-circumcision-first-european-country

It's integral to the Jewish and Muslim faiths and goes back millennia. Banning it to fit 21st century sensibilities is wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start.

You can't make a case for something by saying it's been around for years or that some people with certain beliefs do it. Its abusive to cut off part of a child's anatomy for any reason other than medical necessity.

If a religious sect said they'd been cutting of their children's ears for millennia do we have no ground to prevent them from doing so and prosecuting when they do so.

@bluelady
“It's integral to the Jewish and Muslim faiths and goes back millennia. Banning it to fit 21st century sensibilities is wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start.”

Let’s do all we can to protect the tradition of FGM which has also been going on for thousands of years than shall we? Fucks sake

Sometimes there are no words

So many women with opinions on a purely male issue, and issued so vehemently. I can I can imagine the furore if only males were discussing a purely female issue.

I have not seen anyone insist that circumcision should be banned outright. surely posters all (or at least mainly) think that its fine IF an adult choses it for themselves.

Its that its being practiced on babies, who cannot consent, and not for medical reasons, that is the problem surely.

I would have no problem with men discussing female issues, aslong as it was not to minimize and such. And finally, you do not know the sex of everyone posting. or do you think that a site called mumsnet should not ever discuss issues that affect male people?

I understand the role of circumsicion in Judaism (I think- it's a sign of the contract between God and the Jews) but can anyone explain what it means for Muslims? or is it just a cultural thing for them?

It amounts to religious persecution.

No, laws that protect children from abuse can't be blocked because of adults beliefs. That's a very dangerous road to go down.

Surely respect for other people's religious beliefs should be part of any civilised society.

There's nothing civilised about mutilating a baby because of the beliefs of the parents. I respect people's rights to have their own beliefs. But it will not respect the beliefs themselves and will call them out if their beliefs are harmful.

After more quick googling.. Seeing need borns strapped down in bandages screaming, reading about, complications... Collapsed lungs from screaming it's far far worse than in my head.

I'm sorry it's utterly wicked

Gobsmacked by the casual antisemitism and Islamaphobia here. Reporting this.

Report me all you want. I am not antisemitic or anti Islam. If not cutting bits off healthy children is an extreme view I'll happily face a ban for that. My remark was in context to the poster hand wringing that someone would feel they would have to leave the UK to mutilate their child.

After what I have just seen head in hands I'm wondering why we have not already banned it. I'm aghast.

If the vast majority are perfectly happy with it, as I believe they are, it is odd for a bunch of females to tell them of their great loss and how awful it must be.

Adult men can decide whatever they want to do with their own penis. Get the whole thing chopped off, enlarged, inverted, dyed green, whatever for all I care. crack on.

But people should not be allowed to make this choice for babies. Unless there is a medical reason.

I'm shocked by the weak reasons been given to heap this cruelty on a baby and risks its life. In some cases he will loose his life

MiltonBurnedTheBuildingDown

MNHQ obviously think your comment was wrong as it's been deleted.

Where I live, most men my age are circumcised. In my limited experience I’d never seen an uncircumcised one till I moved to England. I’ve still only seen that one.

I’m unclear on why people get so het up about it. Men who’ve been circumcised experience plenty of sexual pleasure (unlike fgm). I’ve been to plenty of bris’ and the babies don’t scream. In all the ones I’ve been to, one cried and quickly stopped when rocked. From what I’ve seen, from the babies point of view, it seems less painful than wind (I know people are going to throw fits over that, but I’m just saying what I’ve seen).

They can think what they like. I'm not bigoted, I'm just against people cutting bits off kids. Surprised it's such an extreme view to be honest. In context, given another poster was worried about baby butchers not feeling welcome in society, well, good.

Ask @SersioulycanitgetWORSE for the link to the videos.

That’s the danger of “quick googling”. As I said, I’ve been to plenty of circumcisions and seen zero babies strapped down and zero screaming. They are held, in a blanket, by their parent, and it’s over with in seconds.

Mmm, not sure I could stand there and watch a small baby being cut and having a private body part permanently modified.

Frankly it's not a matter of whether or not it hurts. It's a matter of consent, pure and simple. It is not acceptable to perform non medically advised permanently body changing surgery on someone unable to consent. Simple as that.

I am willing to bet that if we left circumcision for adult men to decide if they wanted it done for religious reasons the practice would die out very, very quickly.

It's not a danger thanks, it's thrown up cases where real life has been lost.
I'm just wondering how many you have been to and why?

It's very clear 3 baby boys alone are taken one one Manchester hospital a month due to botched circumcision, three have died, one babies lung collapsed!! That's not the problem of a quick Google.. That's the reality of some poor babies.
If I put more time into it I dread to think what would come up

A tiny baby will not remember being circumcised. Child abuse survivors do not have that luxury.

A tiny baby wouldn’t remember being sexually abused. So does it make it ok?

Yes but it does hurt many babies and it's killing them and harming them.

We no longer allow puppies tails to be chopped off.

But it’s ok for babies?

Well, it’s a cultural thing, I wasn’t squeamish about it. And it doesn’t strike me as surgery anymore than ear piercing or toenail trimming does. It is over with very quickly.

My uncle had it done for medical reasons at about 25. The stitches split and he woke up in a pool of blood and a lot of pain. Turned out he was the first one that surgeon had done (I guess someone has to be!).

He's fine now, but would only advocate it for medical need - his experience meant he's not a fan generally!

I'd allow my sons, if they wanted it, to have it done once they turned 18. To do it to a baby is barbaric.