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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Is it ever acceptable?

103 replies

Spexfactor · 18/02/2018 12:18

Named changed for obv reasons.

2 1/2 years ago me and dh had massive row ending up with him between me and dd as a 6 month old. I was furious and desperate to get to her so I dug my nails into his back, he turned around and hit me on the arm 3 times and pushed me into the door. I had bruises for days. I don’t remember what the argument was about but at the time he was very jealous that I got to spend so much more time with dd as I was on mat leave.

Today we got started on a simple discussion that escalated quickly. After he got to shouting at me I said could he just let me out of the car (he was driving). I must have asked him 10 times. I just wanted to get away from his screaming. I literally had my hands over my ears.

He wouldn’t let me out and hit me in his anger. With a fist on my arm.

I know it’s not acceptable to hit anyone but do I break my family up for this? I swore if he hit me again I’d go but is two punches in 3 years a deal breaker? Could it be called domestic violence or is that vastly overdramatic?

OP posts:

sallyandherarmy · 18/02/2018 13:59

You sound as bad as each other - you both have violent tendencies, that is very obvious.

I would be questioning if either of you were fit to responsible parents.

My only concern is for your poor child.

LanaKanesTerfyVagina · 18/02/2018 14:00

Quite MsGame

The minimising of this on here is horrific.

I left my abusive relationship literally barefoot with the clothes pn my back after he tried to strangle me.

But there were times when I was so mired in the shit that I lashed out at him.

If I'd written them as isolated incidents I would have been told I was as bad as him.

The truth is he fucked with my head so so much, I had literally no idea of what was normal anymore.

I told myself I was just as bad, and I minimised it as a passionate relationship.

Unless you have been inside a relationship like this you have absolutely no fucking idea how it completely fucks your head and clouds your thinking.

It's because of attitudes like this I stayed for years longer than I should have, and as a result ended up with pretty horrfic scars, both physical and mental.

But yeah carry on insulting me and minimising this to the op.

Clearly my vast personal experience, both as an abused woman, and volunteering at a domestic abuse charity, and having done the freedom programme means I'm just a nasty misandrist.

SaskaTchewan · 18/02/2018 14:02

MsGameandWatching
If my husband or my wife (if i was a lesbian) was assaulting me by digging their nails in my back, I would absolutely defend myself. I am not violent, but I do know how to defend myself.

UgandanKnuckles · 18/02/2018 14:02

Is it acceptable to dig your nails into someone? No. Is it acceptable to hit someone? No. Is it acceptable to have screaming matches in front of your child? No.

This relationship is toxic and you need out.

LanaKanesTerfyVagina · 18/02/2018 14:03

Have any of you saying they're as bad as each other actually been in an abusive relationship??

Honestly??

torBrowser · 18/02/2018 14:03

@LanaKanesTerfyVagina

She dug her nails in his back. Does that not make her a violent abusive cunt? If not, why not? It's abuse and anyone who abuses someone is a cunt.

Have you missed the part where the OP attacked him in his back?

What difference do statistics make when we're talking about a specific incident? 98%? Fuck that.

"Sure some violence is commited by women, and I will and have called it out."

Just not here? Are nails in the back not violent?

Out of interest, are you a feminist?

@MsGameandWatching

Minimum force or reasonable force? If someone is violent enough to attack my back when I don't think they're in a sound state to be near my baby then I would hit them hard enough to keep them back until the police came to arrest them. I would likely palm strike their nose, elbow to the side of the head or kick the side of their knee. That is reasonable and legal.

PurpleDaisies · 18/02/2018 14:03

Are people reading the op? I don’t understand all the vitriol towards her. Yes, during the incident over two years ago both were at fault, but look at what happened today...

He wouldn’t let me out and hit me in his anger. With a fist on my arm.

How is that her fault? How is she just as bad as him?

LanaKanesTerfyVagina · 18/02/2018 14:07

tor read my post above yours, where I detail that in my abusive relationship I would have been told that I was as bad as him.

You are arguing with me, as a domestice violence worker??

Seriously??

Read my post then come back.

And it makes zero fucking difference whether I am a feminist or not

MsGameandWatching · 18/02/2018 14:09

By punching your wife in the face? That's not self defence, that's attacking, angry revenge. We are not talking about a woman punching a man here so let's keep to the relevant sexes. You state that if a woman dug their nails in your back you would turn and punch them in the face, you are the man here remember. You wouldn't try to restrain them? Or dish out minimum violence? These and other comments you've made on here show you have no understanding at all of the dynamics of Male on female domestic violence, which is what we are talking about here.

Lana my ex attacked me in front of my five year old in the end and my five year old was trying to pull him off me. I was diagnosed with CPTSD in the end and barely knew who I was. I stayed around seven years longer than I should have, we were only together for eight! Because of the "she's just as bad" shit that is peddaled regarding domestic relationships. Don't usually see it on here though to be fair.

Terftastic · 18/02/2018 14:09

These threads are ridiculous - no - a reasonable defence or reaction to nails dug in you, is NOT throwing punches and pushing someone into a door. Especially not when you're stood between them and their baby.

It is not reasonable to separate a mother from her baby, because you're jealous she's on maternity leave.

It is not reasonable to stop the OP from leaving the car, and then punch her.

OP, leave him.

FranticallyPeaceful · 18/02/2018 14:12

You absolutely don’t put up with this, for your sake but mostly your daughters. She will learn it’s an acceptable way for her to be treated if you put up with it.

But that’s not your fault as I know from experience how difficult it is to mentally escape these situations enough to physically escape. Just do it now - ring a shelter, kick him out, report him to police if you have to. Tell friends, keep a log. Anything - just start doing it now

GreyGardens88 · 18/02/2018 14:13

We're only hearing one side of the story, and no I don't think a slap on the arm warrants a call to women's aid or that OP should be fleeing to a shelter. I DO think you should break up though because constant arguing and slanging matches does cause damage to your child and she'll grow up with all sorts of self esteem and anxiety issues because of it

MsGameandWatching · 18/02/2018 14:14

If someone is violent enough to attack my back when I don't think they're in a sound state to be near my baby then I would hit them hard enough to keep them back until the police came to arrest them.

Hmm, yet there's nothing about him calling the police is there? Which one would expect if they were dealing with her shocking attack in the reasonable way you claim you would be? Would you also be angry and jealous that your child's other parent was spending more time with them due to maternity leave, out of interest? You also called the OP a "violent abusive cunt", based on no evidence whatsoever so I don't really think your stance on this holds much weight to be quite honest.

torBrowser · 18/02/2018 14:15

"You are arguing with me, as a domestice violence worker?"

Yes. Is that not allowed?

Your job does not mean that you are above criticism. In fact, your ability to pluck facts out of the air and label him the way you have combined with your self-declared "absolutely no fucking idea how it completely fucks your head and clouds your thinking" suggests that you need to be criticised and questioned especially in your role.

I have no idea what's gone on in your life and can only base my opinions on what the OP has written. She was the aggressor when she wanted to get to her baby and he didn't want her to. She has no more right than him and she attacked his back i.e. not self defense. Dress it up how you want but he was the victim, she was the aggressor and him hitting her and getting her away would be for a jury to decide when they have many more facts than you or I do.

Hitting the OP in the car? That sounds awful.

Should domestic violence victims be working as domestic violence workers? I think you're demonstrating - from quite a few posters who see the illogical stance you're taking - that this is a delicate line to walk. Your irrational swearing, calling him an "abusive cunt" and an inability to see that the OP should not have attacked him suggest that you're struggling to separate private and professional opinions.

PurpleDaisies · 18/02/2018 14:15

We're only hearing one side of the story, and no I don't think a slap on the arm warrants a call to women's aid or that OP should be fleeing to a shelter.

Ffs. He punched her with his fist. Why are people minimising this? What could the other side of the story be to justify punching his wife?

WildWindsBlowing · 18/02/2018 14:16

Don't even for a second blame yourself in the first instance for reacting instinctively as a mother to get to her baby. Your DH's reaction that time was completely too violent and out of proportion in any case.

In the car incident, perhaps it was the case that he could not stop safely to let you out because of the road. But his lashing out in that way - by punching you on the arm- was also an over violent reaction.

Unfortunately, he is a bully.

Are you sure incidents of him ebhaving like a bully are isolated to these events? There may have been other non physical ways he has been throwing his weight around.

Qvar · 18/02/2018 14:16

If my mother had left my dad when he hit her, perhaps he wouldn't have been there to hit me when I hit puberty. Perhaps I wouldn't have learned to appease violent and aggressive men, and perhaps I wouldn't have ended up as a single parent to two kids who can only have supervised access with their violent dad

break the chain

RainyApril · 18/02/2018 14:19

I've asked for some clarification about what happened today.

Where was op asking to be let out?
Was she attempting to open a door, take off her seat belt or interfere with his driving?

If not, he is indeed abusive and she needs support to ltb.

BakedBeans47 · 18/02/2018 14:21

I agree with those who have said the whole relationship is toxic and for the sake of your child you need to leave. You can’t have her thinking that screaming, gouging and punching each other is part of a normal relationship.

MsGameandWatching · 18/02/2018 14:21

Should domestic violence victims be working as domestic violence workers? I think you're demonstrating - from quite a few posters who see the illogical stance you're taking

I can see three posters who have directly stated they don't agree with Lana there are many more that do. Hardly "quite a few"... And yes victims of domestic violence should and do work with other victims because as this thread makes clear there's an awful lack of understanding around the issues.

torBrowser · 18/02/2018 14:25

@MsGameandWatching

My labeling was following a domestic violence workers train of thought. Why do you think that my stance holds little weight but @lana's does?

Attacking someone = violent and abusive
violent and abusive = cunt

Many victims of domestic abuse don't call the police. They think that they can work through problems or sort it with talking or that a relationship is "passionate".

Would you ever use the argument 'but you didn't call the police' if a woman told you she was attacked by her husband or are you setting massive double standards?

Yes. If someone attacked my back when I didn't want them near my baby I would punch them in the face (or other things I suggested). Restraint is dangerous without training and even with training, in a one-on-one situation is risky for both parties. Why is sex relevant? Men are likely to be stronger but it takes strength and technique to restrain someone safely. I'll say it again, as a man or a woman (I'm a happily married hetero woman, in case it makes a difference) I would hit someone in the face as hard as I possibly could if they attacked my back and were trying to get to my baby when I thought they shouldn't.

What would you do if your husband had wanted to get at your 6 month old baby, you thought he shouldn't be allowed and he attacked your back?

WildWindsBlowing · 18/02/2018 14:31

I would likely palm strike their nose, elbow to the side of the head or kick the side of their knee. That is reasonable and legal.
It seems you are well versed in the strategies of legal toxic masculinity.

SaskaTchewan · 18/02/2018 14:38

WildWindsBlowing

Are you really trying to say that learning self-defense makes you a domestic abuser?

torBrowser · 18/02/2018 14:39

"toxic masculinity"

I don't think that that means what you think it means but well done for trying.

I'm a woman but yes, am trained to defend myself and also understand the legalities of attacking vs defending and what is likely to be seen as reasonable force. There is nothing toxic about defending yourself and those in your charge and if you see this as masculine then the issues are all yours.

Does it not strike you as pretty fucked up that you can read a poster saying "I was furious and desperate to get to her so I dug my nails into his back" and somehow blame men and masculinity for her aggression? It takes a certain kind of misandry to twist logic to suit that argument!

Snowysky20009 · 18/02/2018 14:39

You both sound like you can't handle your emotions. Please think of your dd in this, and split up for her sake.

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