To wonder why the older generation can't admit that things are harder for millennials?

[ExtraPineappleExtraHam]

So we just had our meeting with a mortgage advisor. They will lend my dp £45,000 (not even enough for a bedsit in this town) and so I'm not even bothering to do mine as I earn less. We work very hard (44 hours and 27 hours) we just have low paid jobs and pay childcare for two under 5's!
I talked to my stepdad who compared it to when he had to borrow £36,000 to buy his first house in the early eighties. That was 3 times his salary and his wife stayed at home. He paid it off in six years. It's not the same. He was given a mortgage which was enough to buy a nice house in an area close to family and where he worked. He didn't have to have a bank manager saying 'well if you move to Wales or up north?' He didn't have to rent forever and have nothing to pass down to his children. It's not the same!

I don't think older generations had it easier but their circumstances were different. For example, you wouldn't have lived together until you were married and you certainly wouldn't have children to provide for until you were established in your house.

Sirlee thats true of my grandparents but not true of my babyboomer parents and friends/peers or my PIL and their siblings/friends

My parents married in the 50s because that was the only way easily to get sex actually. It was still the norm that you could not just shack up together and have sex outside holy matrimony.

"where I live rents are more than monthly mortage payments."

Here too. I know someone about the same age as me who bought about 18 years ago. Her mortgage for a massive house is about half what I pay for a one bedroom flat. She is a bit more out of the city, but I think the thing that makes it so cheap for her is the time that she bought it.

My mum was a single parent. Poor single parents then were treated like absolute shit. You were a "fallen woman".

My mum will quite happily admit she had a ball in the 60s - met my dad when she was training to be a teacher in Liverpool. Lived with friends in a grotty typical student flat, out every weekend etc. This wasn’t considered unusual by mid 60s and she came from an average to poor background. My parents trajectory from marriage to home ownership and financial security was simple and not considered special.

That is the point - it is considered special and hard now...because it is much harder to achieve.

Btw rents are more expensive than mortgages in York.

She was training to be a teacher. As I have said for white able bodied middle class people, I do think life was easier then.

"Sick of hearing this millenial/baby boomer crap which is nothing more than a media construct.

But all you so called millennials have no clue about how life was 30/40/50 years ago. You really have never had it so good. Dont blame "older" people re housing."

I don't think OP is BLAMING older people, she's just asking for them to admit that certain things are harder than before.

As for 'never had it so good', say that to the people working zero hour contracts. In many ways we're going backwards.

" Poor single parents then were treated like absolute shit. You were a "fallen woman"."

Well, yes, our idea of morals was very different before the sexual revolution. Living 'in sin' was still shocking in the early 90s, but this isn't really to do with the ratio of house prices to wages.

Yes I remember kids from my school class who were one of 13 and 1 of 9. Women who kept just having kids as long as they could physically.

" No foreign holidays."

Not this again. For those of us who don't have a car, foreign holidays are cheaper than taking the train within this country. It's really not the luxury it used to be. I couldn't afford Centre Parks, but I could probably do a mini break somewhere in Spain ( I paid 30 E a night for a hotel in southern France) and a really cheap Ryan Air flight.

Takeaways and eating out I'll give you, but those options just didn't really exist when my parents were young. Going to eat out wasn't really a thing, but plenty of people (not my parents, necessarily) went to the pub.

As for second hand and charity shop things, I see no reason to think there's less of that about. There's maybe a bit more of a fad for frequent decorating, but people still buy furniture from BHF or slightly more expensive from Ikea and charity shops are still going strong.

Yes but you didn't start with those things.

Bought my first flat in my 20s - and i didn't have a penny to spare afterwards. Didn't have carpet for the first year. Every piece of furniture was something someone was chucking out/from junk shops. my tiny little TV was about third hand by the time it reached me. No nights out for quite some time. No holidays - UK or overseas - for years. No car.

But that was my choice. it wasn't easy. I could have chosen to spend on living it up and luxuries or I could have chosen to buy a flat and live sparsely for quite a while.

This current generation has choices - different choices, but choices all the same. They do not have to gravitate to London and the south east where they know they cant afford to live and complain (have a rightmove search for how many hundreds of good 2 bed first time houses are within 10 miles of Manchester at less than 80k - 4 grand deposit, less than 500 month repayments - perfectly doable)

It's always the same old bullshit, Gwen, we didn't have foreign holidays or tech! Yeah, no shit, we didn't, either, because it didn't exist.

ohgoodness - Most of my furniture is second hand, a couple of cheap things from Ikea and I rent. You were in a much better position than me and at a young age. I've never had a car either, but I understand that some people have to have one to go for work and it's definitely not a luxury if you live in the countryside.

Yes, I do go out, but not going out wouldn't make a difference to me personally. I don't earn enough to get a mortgage and saving a few pounds on not going to Weatherspoons is not going to make a difference. I don't live in the south east, but I can understand why some people need to go there to get a job in their field.

"(have a rightmove search for how many hundreds of good 2 bed first time houses are within 10 miles of Manchester at less than 80k - 4 grand deposit, less than 500 month "

I don't live near Manchester and I don't think giving up my job is a good idea when looking for long-term financial security.

' They do not have to gravitate to London and the south east where they know they cant afford to live and complain '

They can just magic up a job any ol' place, I guess

Crunchymint teaching has always been a noble career but back in the 60s it was also a route for those who had a bit between their ears but many, like my mum, had failed their 11+ and weren’t middle class.

This thread isn’t just discussing the very poor - there’s also nothing wrong with working hard and wanting to do well and have a nice standard of living. My peers and I all lived in grotty flats or houses in our 20s, no one particularly expected more but by the time you’re an adult, often in a good career, there nothing wrong with thinking you should be able to buy a decent house in a nice area - working people of my parents generation always made sacrifices but achieving a decent house wasn’t considered difficult for the majority.

Again, in London this has always been very difficult but not everyone lives in London lol

And sure - buy a tiny flat in Manchester (nowhere near your job/family/friends) but good luck selling it in the future and being able to actually move up the property ladder. Life doesn’t end with that initially starter home.

"They can just magic up a job any ol' place, I guess hmm2

About 90% of the UK doesn't work in London....

crunchymint
That’s interesting. Even if buying a house with a 5-10% deposit? I know initial rates are low but all go up to around 4.99% after the fixed rate term. So that could influence perhaps.

Gwen
You can’t compare your rent to a mortgage payment on a house bought 18 years ago. You have to compare like with like. The person will own 80% plus of their house by now. Of course their mortgage is minuscule. In 18 years time, my mortgage may also be considered peanuts as will the rent you’re currently paying and dh and I will own almost the whole house.

How much is the house worth today? Deduct 5-10% as a deposit. Then plug that into a mortgage calculator. Do be aware that it will go up to 4.99% once the very low fixed rate has expired. That’s a fixed rate mortgage, which will have cost £1k just to arrange, not including other fees, which even without stamp duty will be at least the same again. Then if the person wants to keep paying a low amount, they will have to continue to spend 1.5k+ to remortgage on the lowest fixed rate available.

The contraceptive pill became available in 1961. And I'm sure it was a good few years before 'everyone' had access to it. In fact I'm pretty sure arguments by the Catholic Church continued for decades. And it wouldn't have been available to single women for quite a while.

I was never offered it for painful periods but went on it at 20 in 1973 as a contraception when I asked for it. In my late teens girls were still going to mother and baby homes to have their baby which was then given up for adoption. Some had abortions but it was a big deal, and kept secret.
Wow a different world when you think about it.

"You can’t compare your rent to a mortgage payment on a house bought 18 years ago. You have to compare like with like. "

I'm comparing between buying a house 18 years ago and buying one now. That's the whole point.

For those of us who don't have a car, foreign holidays are cheaper than taking the train within this country. It's really not the luxury it used to be. It still adds to the perception that younger people have a higher quality of life that boomers did at their age. And some of the things that go into that better quality of life do cost money - eating out, taxis, having more than one holiday a year. As well as the other stuff like maternity rights, lesser tolerance of bullying at work, more annual leave.

And although the OP hasn't placed blame, boomers are aware that for the last couple of year there has been a torrent of newspaper articles etc all very firmly placing blame. It instils a certain defensiveness.

"It still adds to the perception that younger people have a higher quality of life that boomers did at their age."

It's ridiculous to say it's their own fault they can't buy a house because they have foreign holidays when the foreign holidays are CHEAPER. If people are jealous because foreign travel was expensive when they were young, say so, don't conflate it with buying a house.

"As well as the other stuff like maternity rights, lesser tolerance of bullying at work, more annual leave."

But we're going backwards on these things. Conditions are not as good as they used to be and more and more people are temping or in fixed contracts. There are people forced to re-apply for their own jobs on worse conditions. There are people on zero-hour contracts. Special payments for overtime, weekend working, etc. are being phased out. And after Brexit, God help us in terms of workers' rights.

As I mentioned before, the 8 hour day was a great victory for workers, but we're working more now, not less.