PIL issues. Wanting to see GC separately

[Coffeeisnecessary]

Hi mumsnetters, I genuinely don't know if I'm being unreasonable about this particular problem so please help me! My MIL is a tricky person, diagnosed personality disorder along with a host of other issues, she is very negative and has been nasty about me for the whole 16 years I've known her behind my back, face to face she is pleasant enough. She adores my 2 DS and they her, however she treats my eldest DS as if he is the second coming, she has openly admitted she prefers him and sees her as 'hers' whereas my second DS she describes as 'theirs' meaning my family's. She only wants to see them separately but plans for my second DS always seem to fall through so she sees him far less. He notices this and has started pulling away from them. I hate it as it seems like such obvious favouritism. My FIL always used to seem so rational but he also agrees they only want to have them on their own as they can't cope with both. He thinks they need time apart from each other, which may be true. They go to the same school and we generally have them both together so it's possible they would benefit from time apart. My DS are 6 and 4 and get on well mostly. I'm conflicted as I know my own views of my MIL may be tainting my opinion but aibu to dislike them seeing them separately?

hard to do in reality when you are such people pleasers like me and my dh - oh so not hard for your kids then?

I wouldn't let these people within a mile of my DCs. Personality disorder doesn't mean you get handed a child's self esteem and happiness on a plate to play with.

She has basically selected one son to be the 'golden child'. Very unhealthy and will negatively impact both children in the long run. This is the real problem. If this were not the case I would ok with letting her see them separately but as it IS the case it's basically feeding her obsession with the golden son and she can indulge and take this behaviour to extremes if he is on in own in ways that she may not when the other son is there as the comparison will be obvious. It is divide and conquer and to agree to the segregation is to give the tacit message, to her and your sons that this is not a problem. It is. It may be totally true that they cannot cope with both and it would be good be good for them to be separate but from what you have said this is not the real impetus behind this request, it just happily gives a convincingly good reason to give MIL her own way. Very unhealthy.

Your DH has had to have counselling due to his mother...please don't let your DC with her unsupervised!! You are setting them up for the same life. Please think carefully and protect your DC.

My mother in law wouldn’t dream of sayin she prefers one over the other. That’s just cruel. I’d prefer her not to either if that’s how she acts.

Another vote here for supervised access and both children together. I have no time for the assumption that it is ok to have a favourite. What you feel is one thing, but what you show is entirely another. Solidarity is the way forward.

It can be lovely to have 1 to 1 time, and of course when they are having 1 to 1 with one child you can have it with the other. I honestly can't see a problem with that.

The favoritism is another matter and I think your DH needs to address that.

As kids we rarely say our grandparents without our parents and my kids rarely saw theirs without one of us ( divorced). We're a family who tend to move away from the nest though which makes a difference to those who stay put. I'd agree with just taking the kids with you when you visit.

The problem is when they blatantly cancel on ds2, which means he’s not getting the same attention. And kids see these things.

I’m afraid if I were you, I’d be telling them they have to see them together until they can learn to treat them the same, otherwise there’s a chance ds2 will not only shy away from them, but he will begin to resent his own brother, and that could cause huge problems in the future.

My DM clearly favoured my DD over my DS.
It was so obvious.
She would use the excuse that DD was older so easier. She even refused to have DS when me and OH got married so he had to go to my SIL.
That was the last time DD stayed there.
I couldn't do it to my DS. I was criticised for punishing DD but I didn't see it like that.

My MIL had 30 GC and she managed to make them all feel important. When my kids were with her they felt special, when my DNs/Ns were with her they all felt special too.
My DM couldn't manage it with two.

There is no excuse.

I grew up knowing I wasn't a favourite. I refused to let my DS feel like that.

FaveNumberls2 the only thing is I would worry about forcing them to see 2 together incase they aren't nice to the younger one. Hopefully they wouldn't be that vile but you never know.

"I suppose the reason we've never tackled it properly before is that we feel sorry for her, it must be such a sad way to live, she is bitter and has extreme anxiety about things. But I agree, when it's affecting your children you have to act."
Yes, indeed you do have to act. Your DH needed counselling because of her, don't let that be a need your children have too. And stop thinking that 'it must be such a sad way to live' for her - it may be no such thing. You're thinking she feels things the same way you do, her personality disorder may be such that she really really doesn't.

So stop feeling sorry for her. Her problems are no reason why you need to be sacrificial lambs. Her behaviour is harmful to your all, and since presumably the behaviour won't change, you/DH/DSs being on the receiving end of it must be what changes.

As others who have been the unfavoured child have already said upthread, making her spend equal amounts of time with both your sons is not a solution. They will still have very different experiences, and that will still cause the problem. I would not allow her/FIL unsupervised access to them at all. I would want to be present AT ALL TIMES she/FIL are around my children. It is possible she could still make your DS2 feel unloved though, and for that I would have no hesitation in telling them that they can't have access AT ALL.

She has problems. She has given your husband problems he needed counselling for, I would not allow her to give my child problems too. Stop feeling sorry for her.

My grandparents openly favoured my cousin above me and my sibling. They took him out every week, my grandad lovingly crafted him presents and did hobbies with him. None of this was done for us. I was 7 when my cousin was born and it began straight away and I bloody well noticed it! It hurt like hell even when I was young. I’m in my 30s now. Grandad long dead and grandmother still giving my cousin thousands of pounds, treating him to things etc. I’m sure she does love us but my god has she wrecked our relationship. I see her maybe once a month if that. I help her out, fix things for her, invite her to parties. I’m not close to her though and never will be. She has tried to involve my daughter in her life but, quite frankly, I don’t want my daughter to suffer the way I did. It still hurts now.
So please do sort it and stand up for your child. I wish my parents had.

@grannytomine as you say, you never know how vile someone will be, and sometimes family member can be horrible.

What about if you asked them to come to your house to see both children? That way, you will oversee proceedings and they can't complain that they can only cope with one at a time.

Actually I have to confess that one of mine was GPs favourite to a ridiculous extent. They loved them all and the kids, mine and my nieces and nephews, all loved them but everyone knew my DS was on a pedestal. It became a family joke and he got ribbed about it and still does now GPs are no longer with us. I don't know why no one was offended but they really weren't, when I look back at it I think the gentle mickey taking of DS and GPs made a big difference.

Typical personality disorder behaviour. Do not let her under any circumstances call the shots and take control. It will end in tears.
You are the captain of your own ship. Steer your family wisely.

If they can't cope with both a family outing or meet up seems the order of the day. It's unfair to have blatant favourites and sounds like it could be another way to upset you.

Definitely has to see both or not at all. END of. YANBU

No. Neither. OP and her DH need to go NC.

coffee you appear to be excusing her behavior due to a diagnosis of personality disorder. There are many different diagnosis however she sound like emotionally unstable or borderline. They tend to be preocuppied with their own needs and wants and show a lack of regard for others. Interesting she has been in a stable marriage and had kids.so doesn't quite fit the usual picture. It isn't treatable she is what she Is. My OH was his GM favorite and his DB was treated differently. His DB hated her, truly hated her, she showed no regard for him or his own children but doted on my OH and our kids. Interestingly our kids now play second fiddle to DB kids with their parents. It's not nice growing up in that situation, if the GM can't change then you have to set some ground rules, your the parent and look after your DC.

At the start of your post I thought children were teens.
At such a young age no way I’d be sending them separate all the time and in light of oldest being favourite I’d honestly review sending them at all.

Coffee, PLEASE take this seriously and do something. Before it is too late. I can speak from personal experience. I was child-minded by "granny" who adored me, and I adored her. She took me everywhere, and I felt so cherished and loved. Along came baby brother, and overnight, I was suddenly of no interest. It absolutely broke my heart, and I can still now, so very many years later, remember rushing to her for a cuddle when she arrived only to be quite swiftly pushed aside, in order that granny could get to baby brother. This has HONESTLY caused self worth and esteem problems for me, to this day. Good luck, but sort it you MUST.

Believe me, I am reading and taking this all in properly and will be strong and am going to insist on only supervised contact from now. Thank you so much for helping me to see it clearly.

I agree you should stop the separate unsupervised visits. I would only visit as a family, as I would worry she would blatantly play favourites while you weren't looking.

It isn't actually the case that borderline personality disorder is untreatable. Dialectical Behaviour Therapy is an effective therapy for it, but it is a long-term therapy that the sufferer needs to be committed to in order to achieve meaningful change. It doesn't sound likely that your MIL would be up for that, so the best you can do is limit and supervise contact to ensure the chain of damage is broken.

Well done, Coffee. Just because they are your PIL and have "problems" does NOT mean you are forced to allow them to cause current emotional confusions, (your little one has already noticed?) and later, (more worrying) emotional difficulties which will be extremely hard to shift. God knows, we all try so hard to protect our children from any form of abuse, and sorry, but this IS emotional abuse. You and DH have to stop it, NOW. Sorry, but also to hell with how mil and fil feel. The MOST important people in this situation are your two boys, so end it now, once and for all and stop worrying about it any longer. Focus on inspiring your boys with self confidence, and high esteem. Good luck. Please let us all know how you get on. Stay strong, resolute, and absolutely determined! xx

shovingleopard the research shows there is limited change in using DBT/schema or other treatments for those with PD. I did an MSc on the very topic and have worked in psychiatry for over 30yrs.