Aibu to not understand all the trans stuff...?

[cansomeoneexplain]

I've NC for this.

Apologies first off if this thread sounds dumb, ignorant or goady. I genuinely don't mean to come across that way.

I read a lot of 'trans' topics on here mainly in the feminism boards. I do feel like I've missed something entirely.

On MN there appears to be a growing number of concern for trans women 'taking' the rights of women as their own.

I don't use Twitter but a lot of links get referenced to that regards transgender people trying to 'erase' females etc. I have clicked on the links referenced on MN to Twitter and even google and the guardian and find that it appears on the surface to be true.

However I feel like I've missed something fundamental. A few years ago I hardly ever saw six topics on MN - maybe I wasn't reading the right threads at the time? I don't really socialise much outside of work but when I do, none of my social circle ever mentions such things regarding trans issues. I watch the news but I don't really see anything there pertaining to trans people taking away women's rights.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm only made aware of it via mumsnet (apart from the male transgender weightlifter who competed in a women's event).

So can I ask the more enlightened of you, has this always been an issue or has it only recently just come about?

Why does it seem to be such a strong theme on MN but hardly anywhere else I look? Like I said I don't use Twitter at all unless someone post a link to something specific.

How can trans people possibly 'take away the rights of women'? How can that even be legal? Have new laws been passed that I'm not aware of?

I hope I don't come across as goady but I really would appreciate someone taking the time to fill me in especially as I can't seem to log on to MN these days without seeing similar threads re trans issues over and over. Also I don't understand how all these abbreviations have come about like TERF, TRA, etc. I'd genuinely never heard of them til a month or so ago. No one talks about this stuff irl.

Is it something kids are being taught in schools, the whole trans/non binary thing? I don't know what half of it means. I feel like I'm in some parallel universe reading some of the threads on here. I go to work and these issues aren't mentioned at all. I take care of my kids outside of work. What have I missed?

Sorry that was long. I'd appreciate genuine replies to this post, I'm not looking for a bun fight, just honest answers.

Thanks all in advance

People don't mention it on Facebook as it is very divisive and a good way to offend friends.
Also as more and more orgs start considering gender identity as a more important definition than biological sex, we are getting a snowball effect of more and more newsworthy stories about transgender people, such as the person who was jailed for breaking into women's houses and walking in their underwear, asking to be moved to women's prison as they "identify" as a woman.
Or the 16 stone, 6'3" Hannah Mouncey being cleared to play women's Australian football after previously being a member of the Australian national men's handball team. AFL is a high contact sport like rugby.
Or the transgender "mother" who induced lactation breast fed a baby for 6 weeks with the help of a cocktail of drugs, some of which are banned in breastfeeding women due to concern about their safety for babies.
Having said all that the feminist board is crazy at the mo and it's a bit annoying as there is a lot more to feminism than the negative effects of gender self-identification on women.

I think the Feminst boards can put people off. 6 months ago I woulnt have bothered read them thinking out of my educational and social league.

Until I realised that putting up your hand and saying hang on if I went to prison I could share a cell with a bloke tomorrow? Eh? Suddenly that makes me a feminst.

if they want access to the gender pay gap they can gladly have it.

I may just front as a misogynist bloke to get one over on them

I appreciate you are being flippant, and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, but minimising and diverting discussion like this could be interpreted as is a common Trans-Right-Activist tactic, here on MN and in the few other places these discussions happen.

It may be amusing to imagine yourself identifying yourself out of being a woman , but imagine being the victim of domestic violence, finally plucking up the courage to leave, only to find that your abusive ex-partner has self-identified as a woman and is now the cleaner/cook/counsellor at the woman's hostel you have fled to. What hope would you be left with?

I'm beginning to wonder if the whole militant trans-activist thing isn't just a hideous manifestation of the MRAs hiding within Class War and other anarchist groups.

And no, OP, they really don't want to be women. That's why they call women 'cunt scum'.

I'd like to say they're just very naughty boys but they duped Maria Miller MP with this crap and, from the same film - this is actually happening.

But surely if they hate women so much they wouldn't want to be one of us?

Yes, you'd think that wouldn't you. But no.

There's a difference between transexuals and the new TRAs.

Transexuals are those you probably think of as transwomen. People with gender dysphoria who desperately want a sex change and to be accepted.

TRAs are a political group. They include all kinds of people - anyone who supports the idea. TRAs include lots of transwomen who are not transexuals but what we used to call cross dressers / transvestite men. They don't want to change sex. They are turned on by the idea of being a woman. It's a fetish. People validating them as a woman (by calling them she, accepting them into womens spaces, submitting to their fantasies) is an important part of it for them.

This lot are misogynistic narcistists and full of rage of women try to assert our boundaries or don't submit to their delusions. For example, many such men say, straight-faced, that they are lesbians, that their penises are "lady dicks" and that lesbians who refuse to have sex with them are "vagina fetishists" and bigots.

Many of them think that if someone calls them he not she, that's an act of violence and that if they punch us for saying that, it's an act of self defence.

There was a 28 year old TRA up in court today for baattering a 60 year old woman for being a "TERF". The TRAs came to the court to protest!

It's just warped. Here's a good account including video footage:

www.skepticat.org/2017/09/when-vicious-entitled-thugs-attack-i-fight-back/

I think the Feminst boards can put people off. 6 months ago I woulnt have bothered read them thinking out of my educational and social league
I find this so sad. I post on feminism all the time and hate to think I'm putting people off. Not sure how to make it more appealing or relevant to people - I've been told I'm patronising too
Please come and post whatever you like - we get trolled to fuck so sometimes we can be a bit arsey if some one seems like they are trolling but I think/hope it's a good place to post.

cansomeoneexplain

There is a vocal group of transwomen that believe that they are lesbians with a penis (female penis) and they should have the right to have PIV sex with lesbians and if they are not allowed it is effectively a hate crime.

titchy

JJ is/was being roasted on FWR, and showing a deeply unpleasant nature (IMO).

I'm beginning to wonder if the whole militant trans-activist thing isn't just a hideous manifestation of the MRAs hiding within Class War and other anarchist groups. yes - in alliance with cross dressing fetishists who always had a warped view of women anyway.

They're bringing out a whole load of more mainstream misogynists out of the closet too though. Owen Jones - I used to like him. What an odius turd this has shown him to be .

The first time I posted on Feminism I was slightly popped at. I realised I'd fucked up what I was asking. So I said so. And then everyone was incredibly helpful.

OH I do post now lots! Just meant before all the million of Trans threads kicked off I thought it wasn’t anything to do with me! That it be all clever politics that be way over my head. Like I said I woulnt considered wanting things for woman would be a femiat cause, I think I just tookto much for granted.

Like I said I woulnt considered wanting things for woman would be a femiat cause,
That's kind of the whole definition of feminism! Glad you haven't been put off

It's a scary prospect indeed. I read a link about a pack available in schools about self IS but didn't have time to read it all. I take it this was very genuine??

Seriously this is more worrying than I first thought. There must be plenty of petitions going round to amend the equality act? I haven't seen any but I'd gladly sign it

And yes I was annoyed at Jeremy Corbyn jumping on the bandwagon I'm all for live and let live but not to the detriment of others

Great summary Maisy. I'm so happy to have learned the fairly basic amount I do know from MN

NONE of my non MN friends, I.e. everyone I really know, have ever actually thought about it & are always shocked at my gender critical views.

I will add that I am also gender critical in a literal sense in that I am critical of the social construct of gender - of building up a stereotype image of a person from birth based on whether they are male or female.

What does cis actually stand for? Also, I would feel happier if transsexuals post op were allowed access to woman's places but a no penis rule. Is this a bad solution to the problem?

Yes meant to say I was disappointed in Jeremy ☹️

Also, I would feel happier if transsexuals post op were allowed access to woman's places but a no penis rule. Is this a bad solution to the problem?

I'd be happy if they weren't allowed in women's sporting events, penis or no penis.

This explains the basics pretty well:

sages.org.uk/publications/sages-factsheet.html

The reason this is becoming a big issue now is:

a) the definition of trans and the people identifying as trans has massively shifted over the last few years. Previously it was people who had gender dysphoria (ie felt uncomfortable with their body and wanted to change their body to be more like that of the opposite sex). Now, in terms of adults, trans no longer requires you to have gender dysphoria and you get biological males who have had no hormones and no surgery and feel entirely comfortable with their (male) body but just say they identify as women and therefore have a female body with a female penis (or 'ladydick'). In terms of children, those who don't conform with sex role stereotypes are encouraged to think that they must 'really' be the opposite sex and to socially transition followed by puberty blockers and then hormones. (Yes, for adults trans is being de-medicalised, while for children puberty blockers, hormones and surgery are seen as key - this is one of the many contradictions...)

b) Plans to replace the current system of requiring a diagnosis of gender dysphoria to get a gender recognition certificate (ie legally 'change sex' ) with just letting people declare that they are whatever sex they say they are. Many organisations are acting as though this legislation is already in place and are falling to meet other legal duties (e.g. safeguarding duties, equality duties in relation to sex etc).

A lot of us are afraid to post TERFy things on Fbook. I posted about the Hyde Park Corner violence and within seconds a friend was calling me a bigot and a transphobe. Now I only discuss it here, in PMs or on a very anonymous blogging account I use

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

There must be plenty of petitions going round to amend the equality act? I haven't seen any but I'd gladly sign it.

Start one, OP.

What does cis actually stand for?
Depends. Some people say it simply means "not trans", like gay and straight are descriptors of sexuality.
Some people say it means your gender identity matches your sex assigned at birth.

There's a whole load of wilful ignorance going on also, but peopel who really should now better.

Take this article for example. It tells the story of the "plight" of this poor transwoman, who is in a male prison and wants to be transferred to a woman's prison.

When the article was first printed, it neglected to mention that this prisoner is a serial sexual offender. When Marie Dean was Gary Dean Marie he broke into houses, and masturbated into teenage girls knickers.

Why would they think that this was not relevant? I'm sure the women forced to share a cell with him would think it's relevant.

The article does mention it now, but only because there was uproar so they edited it.

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/27/marie-dean-trans-prisoner-male-prison-hunger-strike

We're being asked to believe that prisoners who have always lived as men, can declare that they're women, and that's just fine. If you mention that 50% of trans prisoners are there in sexual offences, people think they're being right on for calling you a bigot, but what about the safety of women?

Or to think that if we change the law to let anyone say they are a women, it would be very unlikely for predators to abuse that law. Do they live in lala land? It'd be a gift to predatory men.

Fuck that.

Im not on any social media apart from mumsnet

maisy summed it up nicely

10 out of 10 and a gold star maisy

For sporting events would the effect of the hormones post op, not change their bodies to a equivalent (more or less) female? I have no idea how that works or how much of an advantage they'd be left with after transition

There must be plenty of petitions going round to amend the equality act? I haven't seen any but I'd gladly sign it

Before you enthusiastically demonstrate your public support, you may want to read about some of the tactics used by TRAs.

Doxxing is the term used to describe the phenomenon when the RL identity of a person who has expressed gender critical opinions online is researched, their employer is contacted, and pressure is put on the business/employer for "employing a transphobe". People have lost their jobs for stating, on an anonymous Twitter feed, that they do not believe that trans-woman are women.