Tenant requesting reduction in rent

[TattyCat]

Just need to check whether IABU.

Our tenant has rented for around 15 months. A few months ago, she complained of a damp patch in the kitchen, so we've had investigations and this has included knocking plaster off the wall, removing the radiator and applying damp proofing. We are awaiting the plaster drying before the radiator can go back on. Just as a note, the house is REALLY warm and this radiator is one I generally had switched off, or on low when I lived there as the kitchen gets hot.

Anyway, tenant has a dog and a few months ago requested permission for a cat, both of which are fine with us and we've always wanted to be flexible. Tenant is now pushing quite hard for a £50 reduction in rent because of the inconvenience of the work being done (albeit it makes the place better!). This work is costing the equivalent of 2 months rent but clearly, we also want to maintain the property so I don't suppose this is relevant.

IABU in saying 'no'?

YANBU at all. I rented a flat that had severe damp (wash freshly painted so we didn't realise until it was too late) and it has caused me massive health issues and I now have issues with my lungs. So I think it's fantastic you have been dealing quickly with the problem.

My landlord never lowered my rent and he never dealt with the issue. I don't think you should lower it, it is an inconvenience but you're dealing with it.

Some (very brief) research suggests that the clause is valid so long as it is reasonable, and does not conflict with the tenant's right to peaceful enjoyment. So a reasonable level of viewings upon 24 hours notice might be fine but LL to barge in as often as they want at minimal notice not ok.

I would always allow it with proper notice partly because I try to deal fairly with people but also because I would worry otherwise that the landlord would be more of a dick about the deposit if I didn't (and I wouldn't blame them!)

That said, thinking back they generally were dicks about the deposit anyway so maybe I shouldn't have bothered!

As a landlord it is your responsibility to maintain the property and damp is a major health hazard. You don't get a medal for paying for essential work! The amount requested is minor. I would think that is entirely reasonable. My neighbours rent their property and they just had a large compensation payout for damp.

Having been in a very similar situation, I would grant the reduction, BUT it depends on how good/reliable the tenant is and how keen you are to retain them.

In my case, the damp proof course around the living room window failed and needed to be replaced. The tenants had to put up with the disruption of the work being carried out, and then had to wait for the plaster to dry before they could fully use the room again. They are excellent tenants, so as a goodwill gesture gave them a 50% rent reduction that month. It felt like the right thing to do.

The 24 hours thing makes it contentious/confusing. However, the 24 hour notice thing actually refers to essential things like emergency repairs, gas inspections etc.

I would always allow it with proper notice partly because I try to deal fairly with people but also because I would worry otherwise that the landlord would be more of a dick about the deposit if I didn't (and I wouldn't blame them!)

Tbh (and I'm a LL so I'm not anti LL) I think it says a lot about LL's in general that you would say that. Tenants shouldn't have to give up quiet enjoyment of their home if they don't want to in fear of the LL acting illegally with their deposit.

McTufty
The tenant can always refuse entry despite what an additional clause may state.

Mctuffy! Believe me as a tenant you can refuse the access to anything by maintenance so viewings are optional. end of story.

I would not allow pets. But I would give the £50 rebate. Is much cheaper to keep tenants in place, especially if you find them reliable...

I totally agree some LLs are awful - point is so are some tenants. I just disagree with those posters who seem to think LLs have to be held to the letter of their tenancy obligations but for tenants it’s somehow fair enough not to.

In terms of 24 hours, that’s conflating two things: the first is the positive statutory right that LLs have to enter for repairs or inspecting condition. I agree here is no equivalent statutory right for viewing. But the second, separate thing in play is the LL’s potential contractual right to enter, which (as far as I can tell and I’ve yet to hear any law to correct me though I’m open to) is valid insofar as it the clause is reasonable and does not conflict with the right to peaceful enjoyment. Here, if the clause allowed for 24 hours notice, or 36 or 48 or whatever, it is more likely to be reasonable and therefore enforceable than a clause which did not require notice. It’s a right arising out of the private contractual agreement between LL and tenant and is a separate issue to the 24 hour notice for repairs etc, which is a statutory right.

The right to quiet enjoyment is not absolute and can be restricted eg right to enter in an emergency, right to inspect on 24 hours notice, and right to reasonable access for viewings if there is such a clause. A call on Monday asking if a viewing can happen at 3pm on wednesday is hardly breaching the right to peaceable enjoyment and I can’t find anything to say that the ordinary and very trite legal principle of contracts being enforceable wouldn’t apply here. The LL isn’t entitled to enter if the tenant refuses, but the tenant would be acting unlawfully.

@mummyoflittledragon from what I’m discovering, lawfully they can’t necessarily do so, although in effect they can because the LL is powerless to do much about it.

No. All properties need work at some point and that has to be accepted. You are acting on rectifying the situation. It's not like the heating isn't working and she's freezing! I think it would be different if the work goes on for an unreasonable time and it's a massive inconvenience though. As for the pets. Check out with a letting agency but I am under the impression that an increased rent can be charged for allowing pets!

@londonrach ok I’m not going to keep arguing about it. I’m a lawyer, this is a very technical area of law which is not my expertise, but if you’re going to say someone can lawfully ignore a contract they have signed up to, there would need to be some legal basis for that. I’ve merely asked what such a legal basis is, and not yet been told. This is not what the thread is about so I’ll just have to remain in the dark and agree to disagree with you about if it’s as simple as you say!

She has pets, she'll struggle to move so she is just trying her luck!

I have a clause in my tenancy agreement that the tenants have to allow viewings if I intend to sell, so long as there's 24 hours notice in writing (email). I thought that was a standard clause?

@McTufty
I’m a landlady and some of the posts claiming landlords wield an omnipotent power do make me chortle. I think we landlords are actually extremely lucky that tenants don’t realise how much power is in their hands. Luckily thus far I’ve always had tenants, who pay even if the rent was late or paid by a guarantor, probably because I have well maintained properties.

As a responsible and considerate pet-owning tenant, I'd just like to thank you TattyCat for allowing pets in your property.

Regarding the rent reduction request, YANBU and I wouldn't think to ask such a thing of my landlord if they'd acted quickly to sort the problem.

Mctuffy. I have alotof experience in in this and cant tell you why (i might have access to up to date landlord law) but know im correct. Ill disagree with you but know you are wrong. Im just gladweve escaped the rent trap now even if we had to leave london to do it.

We have a lovely landlady, we have redecorated her house and she has paid for the materials (paint, wallpaper etc). One time the cooker went wrong and she went out and ordered a new one. We used our microwave and camping stove whilst we were waiting for the new one to be delivered. We never said anything about bring inconvenienced and she came round a few days later with £50 for being patient waiting the new one to be delivered, we always pay our rent on time, look after her house and she does all she can for us. We treat each other with respect.

The 24 hours notice is reasonable notice for an inspection ideal being posted by people on here who rent out houses, to me is outrageous . Even though the owner of this property I’m renting now is more than reasonable, and even tho I keep very good care of this house , I would still respond with a firm no . Not because I’m a twat or because some clause of contract or some grey areas of law etc. But because I have a life and 24 hours isn’t always going to be enough time to adjust pre booked appointments (for instance). I would be happy with 7 days and call that reasonable. However if it was that the house was being sold then yes, two viewings a week I suppose I could live with.

You do know though that the tenant does not need to let you have any viewings at all though? They have the right to quiet enjoyment of the home and do not have to let you or agents or viewers in at all.
Incorrect - the tenant is obliged to allow access for viewings (with 24 hours notice in writing) during the last 28 days of the tenancy, if either the tenant gave notice to end the tenancy or the landlord gave notice to end the tenancy and followed the correct procedures

I would tell the tenant that under normal circumstances I would have considered allowing for a £50 reduction for each month the radiator was off the wall, but considering the pet situation was likely to result in more wear and tear I would not be allowing a reduction. Unless you think the tenant is going to turn nasty, because if you are going to sell, you probably don't want a new tenant with a minimum 6 month contract

OK I withdraw my last remark - it seems this is a commonly held misconception that viewings are permitted in the last 28 days but is in fact not legally enforceable

YANBU.......... No reduction!

i've rented and now i'm in my own place. I agree with PP, it depends on how bothered you'd be if she left. if you're selling the house then any work is not for her benefit, be real.

But, I think I'd be tempted to tell her that you won't put the rent UP but you might sell in the future. That way she may leave of her own accord or she might stay 'til you sell.

YABU. Why should she pay full rent if she's without heating in one room? I would be furious if I had to go months without a radiator in a room that's supposed to have a radiator.

I'm really shocked at the pp saying you're a great landlord just for fixing the place, which is your job.