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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Tenant requesting reduction in rent

259 replies

TattyCat · 15/02/2018 11:42

Just need to check whether IABU.

Our tenant has rented for around 15 months. A few months ago, she complained of a damp patch in the kitchen, so we've had investigations and this has included knocking plaster off the wall, removing the radiator and applying damp proofing. We are awaiting the plaster drying before the radiator can go back on. Just as a note, the house is REALLY warm and this radiator is one I generally had switched off, or on low when I lived there as the kitchen gets hot.

Anyway, tenant has a dog and a few months ago requested permission for a cat, both of which are fine with us and we've always wanted to be flexible. Tenant is now pushing quite hard for a £50 reduction in rent because of the inconvenience of the work being done (albeit it makes the place better!). This work is costing the equivalent of 2 months rent but clearly, we also want to maintain the property so I don't suppose this is relevant.

IABU in saying 'no'?

OP posts:
ExFury · 15/02/2018 17:28

@olga81 to be fair your landlords would have been mad to risk that.

If you'd decided after they sold and they couldn't give vacant posession it would have cost a them fortune.

Sugarplumfairy65 · 15/02/2018 17:38

It doesn't matter what a tenancy agreement says about viewings. A tenancy agreement does not trump the law. Its about time landlords and letting agencies stopped using this clause in their agreements. They have no power to enforce it.

Original poster
TattyCat · 15/02/2018 17:43

It appears that there are pitfalls with either option of selling; giving the tenant notice or letting her stay for the duration of the sale. On balance, it looks as though the best option for us is to give notice.

The tenant is retired and is single, so there are no children involved.

OP posts:
Original poster
TattyCat · 15/02/2018 17:45

It doesn't matter what a tenancy agreement says about viewings. A tenancy agreement does not trump the law. Its about time landlords and letting agencies stopped using this clause in their agreements. They have no power to enforce it.

So what would you suggest if the LL wants to sell, then? Not allow viewings? And if the LL can't afford to pay the mortgage and it gets repossessed, what then? What is the solution, in your view? It sounds as though you believe tenants shouldn't allow a sale, is that right?

OP posts:
Sugarplumfairy65 · 15/02/2018 17:53

They should either compensate them for each viewing or give notice and sell once the property is empty. They pay for quiet enjoyment of the property. If they don't get this because you have buyers traipsing through their home, they should be compensated. I don't rent BTW and never have done.

mirime · 15/02/2018 17:55

@Piffle11 it obviously wasn't obvious from your post! You didn't say "we never reduced the rent because we didn't need to as we got problems sorted quickly".

Sugarplumfairy65 · 15/02/2018 17:57

I have no sympathy for landlords who can't afford their mortgage when their property is empty. In my view, BTL properties/landlords are one of the reasons that house prices and rents are so expensive.

Olga81 · 15/02/2018 18:02

@ExFury - well the landlords were keen to have us in there paying full rent until it sold, so they were happy with the risk if we were paying 100% rent.

MeadowHay · 15/02/2018 18:05

I just wanted to say you sound like a great LL OP. I'm mid-twenties, moved out at 19 and been in private rented sector ever since, moving at least every 12 months. I have had Letting Agents & landlords that have ranged from 'patchy depending on time of year/which staff you speak to, sometimes decent and sometimes useless/slow' to 'cruel money-sucker who ignores any requests for repairs and then tries to illegally deduct money from your deposit'. I've never had a LL as good as you sound. So I do believe you are in the minority - my dad is one other such good LL, so I know they exist, but hard to find!

Original poster
TattyCat · 15/02/2018 18:22

Thank you MeadowHay

OP posts:
ExFury · 15/02/2018 18:22

@olga81 - then they were madder still. Keeping tenants in situ and not bothering to offer anything for the inconvenience of viewings etc is absolute madness.

A greedy landlord who owns the flat downstairs from the one I let out got stung by a tenant after revenge in that way. Let himself in to do viewings without any warning, gave them a load of grief and then exchanged on a sale before issuing notice. The tenants were then told to stay until eviction by the local authority before they'd be given assistance (and they needed it). His sale got screwed and it cost him a fortune. All because he was too greedy to risk a void.

ExFury · 15/02/2018 18:26

@TattyCat Hopefull should be a simple enough process for the tenant to find another place. The only hiccup could be the animals.

Be aware though, the comment from the pp about the viewings is accurate. Tenants pay for quiet enjoyment of their home, and that includes the last couple of months of the tenancy. The reason it's so contentious is because a lot of landlords, and especially letting agents, seem to think if it's in the contract then it's legally binding. They then get shitty when the tenant would comply to their every whim regarding viewings.

I had to use the "you have to cook me dinner every Monday" to make my point to a letting agen once when he bullshitted my current tenant that they had to allow viewings for the next tenant after they'd given notice. Got rid of him around the same time as the tenant left.

ExFury · 15/02/2018 18:26

*wouldn't comply

Piffle11 · 15/02/2018 19:00

@mirime oh dear ...

Gabilan · 15/02/2018 19:16

So what would you suggest if the LL wants to sell, then? Not allow viewings? And if the LL can't afford to pay the mortgage and it gets repossessed, what then? What is the solution, in your view? It sounds as though you believe tenants shouldn't allow a sale, is that right?

When this happened to me, I spoke to a friend of mine who's a letting agent about it. Her take on it was that whilst I could legally not allow viewings, that wouldn't help anyone. I allowed viewings and had a 10% rent reduction to make up for the inconvenience.

As for a LL not being able to afford the mortgage without the rent - tant pis. It's not the tenant's problem. If I decide to move and give the amount of notice I'm contractually obliged to, then the rest is the landlord's problem. Where I rent is my home and I need to feel comfortable and safe there. I cannot feel at home if I know the place might be sold to someone who doesn't want a tenant.

I'd actually rather have much longer-term contracts for tenants than are currently available in the UK. I'd also like to be able to perform the same checks on LLs as they perform on prospective tenants. If there's a chance that they might sell up within a year or two of my moving in, I'd like to know that in advance.

Beetlejizz · 15/02/2018 19:49

If you're thinking of selling, unless you're clear that you won't want to do anything regarding this while she's still in situ, I think you're right to lean towards the £50 one off payment. Make her feel like she's won and keep her sweet. If you want to try and sell it while she's still there, which you don't seem to have ruled out, she could easily cause you more than £50 of trouble. If she wanted a lot more, then the question of how much her compliance is worth might arise. With £50 I don't think it does really.

As an aside, you're not doing her any kind of favour by maintaining your property to an appropriate standard. The cat thing, yes. But not the damp proofing. That's just you doing what you'd potentially get penalised for not doing when you sell the place.

Original poster
TattyCat · 15/02/2018 20:41

As an aside, you're not doing her any kind of favour by maintaining your property to an appropriate standard. The cat thing, yes. But not the damp proofing.That's just you doing what you'd potentially get penalised for not doing when you sell the place.

Yep, absolutely agree. I've never said that we're doing her a favour (just merely stating the facts around why she is asking for a reduction). In fact, it's the opposite! She's doing us a favour by renting it from us!!

I guess I just wasn't expecting to have to pay the tenant when maintaining a property... Does this then mean that anytime anything needs doing ever, we need to pay her (which is what it amounts to)?

OP posts:
MotherofaSurvivor · 15/02/2018 20:57

@ChelleDawg2020 You should be ashamed of yourself!

A 'Trouble Maker' asking a fucking question?????????? So you're of the "Revenge Eviction" opinion? You know there's a new law preventing that don't you???

MotherofaSurvivor · 15/02/2018 21:07

@TheRagingGirl Hmm

So you stated that the weather caused damp and you're complaining about having to fix it and blaming it on the tenants? All in one post?

Are you ok?

Beetlejizz · 15/02/2018 21:28

I'd take a case by case, pragmatic approach OP. So in this instance, you think you may want to sell and haven't ruled out her being in situ. And she only wants £50. If you wanted her out anyway and had another tenant lined up, and she wanted much more of a reduction, your calculation might look different.

BarbarianMum · 15/02/2018 21:33

Depends on what you're doing and the amount of inconvenience caused.
Quick minor repairs - no reduction
Statutory maintenance eg boiler service and gas safety certificate- no reduction
Repairs to stuff the tenant has damaged - no reduction
Rennovation/decorating the tenant has requested (eg redecoration of a room, new carpet) - no reduction
Major repair that takes time and causes inconvenience or significantly affects their ability to enjoy use of the property- sliding scale bw goodwill gesture and compensation.

SersioulycanitgetWORSE · 15/02/2018 21:56

I must be odd because when renting you expect at certain standard in the the home.. If something goes wrong like damp then one expects the property owner to sort it that out?!

Just because many ll are cut throat greedy bastards doesn't mean op is a Saint for simply sorting out her issue in her house.
But of course op is nice.

I really want a crack down on ll they hold all the power. Yes I know properties can be trashed etc but it's someone's home. All that stands between them and possibly for many the streets.

SersioulycanitgetWORSE · 15/02/2018 22:03

Tatty I'm torn.

On the one hand I personally think asking for an additional pet is cheeky. Having one is a luxury when renting. Asking for another??! Very rare that ll allow any pets so I think it's odd or short sighted of her to ask....

I absolutely think any house repairs that inconvenience tenant should be noted on sliding scale and leaving any human without heat in winter or water or with damp needs remuneration... They shouldn't really go one day without heat or water. Ll should be made to jump on this and damp like badgers out of bruning Bush.

But.... I wonder if this tenant isn't being a little cheeky... Not sure...

SersioulycanitgetWORSE · 15/02/2018 22:14

@sandandsea

That's really interesting! I have different sort of tenant and she didn't even ask me for rent reduction but I gave her two months almost half rent because she is just in and had bad illness! I wasn't sure what to do but she had been patient with me when getting tenancy sorted out and in return I wanted to do something nice but also I pragmatic because as you said.. Having someone in paying rent and council tax is better than empty property.. Good to hear this stuff is actually being preached somewhere as people told me I would be stupid to do it abd a soft touch.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/02/2018 22:29

Why is everyone still saying that the tenant asked about the second pet?

OP posted some time ago to say they didn't ask in advance at all, but that the tenant's boyfriend just brought the cat home for her one day ...