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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Tenant requesting reduction in rent

259 replies

TattyCat · 15/02/2018 11:42

Just need to check whether IABU.

Our tenant has rented for around 15 months. A few months ago, she complained of a damp patch in the kitchen, so we've had investigations and this has included knocking plaster off the wall, removing the radiator and applying damp proofing. We are awaiting the plaster drying before the radiator can go back on. Just as a note, the house is REALLY warm and this radiator is one I generally had switched off, or on low when I lived there as the kitchen gets hot.

Anyway, tenant has a dog and a few months ago requested permission for a cat, both of which are fine with us and we've always wanted to be flexible. Tenant is now pushing quite hard for a £50 reduction in rent because of the inconvenience of the work being done (albeit it makes the place better!). This work is costing the equivalent of 2 months rent but clearly, we also want to maintain the property so I don't suppose this is relevant.

IABU in saying 'no'?

OP posts:
TheRagingGirl · 15/02/2018 14:25

Has she still been able to use the room that's had damp? If so, then no, I don't think a rent reduction is called for, but you could give her a one-off "goodwill" reduction, maybe, if she's otherwise a good tenant.

And for those ranting about landlords renting out damp houses - I rent out a house which was fully renovated - new roof, new plaster, completely recarpeted etc etc. In the first 6 months, we had appalling weather and one wall in one of the attic bedrooms got quite damp - (up north, stone house, 3 months of wind & rain that winter). It got damp, after the lease was signed!

I had to have the entire wall replastered, a humidifier in there, ad repainting etc etc.

And when this tenant left, we found they had wrecked the oven, and we had to relay lino in the kitchen because of the destruction to the floor covering. The amount we could wihold from the deposit only covered about half the damage.

And they were otherwise good tenants - paid their rent etc. But they left the house in a very dirty state.

So, you know, I think as a landlord I am rather sceptical of the pleading around tenant's rights.

danTDM · 15/02/2018 14:28

I had to have the entire wall replastered, a humidifier in there, ad repainting etc etc.

Yes, you did. You are a landlord, this is your job. FFS.

Piffle11 · 15/02/2018 14:32

In response to your original question: no, don't reduce the rent, I used to work for a property management company who sorted out stuff like this for landlords, and we never reduced the rent! Off subject, and sorry if I'm repeating what others have said - haven't read all replies: we once viewed a house with tenants in - they were there and told us every little thing that was wrong: they even pointed out that our car wouldn't fit in the garage because of a large pipe that was inside - we would never have cottoned on! So if your tenant does let people in ... well, you can't guarantee what she will say. I worked for an estate agent once and the state of the rented out properties we were trying to sell: dirty plates in the sink, messy bathrooms, clothes on floor in bedroom ... and there was worse than that! A tenant has no reason to help you sell your house - you are effectively making them homeless, so at best they may leave the place looking like a tip, and at worse could actively try and wreck any deal. Does your tenant have a proper agreement? Because we never used to take properties with sitting tenants as you simply can't (or at least couldn't then) get them to leave.

FinallyFree123456789 · 15/02/2018 14:39

@tattycat
I wouldn’t reduce the rent.
You sound like a reasonable landlord - I’ve been renting the same house for 6 years; never had a rent increase & have never asked for a reduction - even when I had to move out twice (each for 2 weeks) - when there was a gas leak or when the roof caved into my daughters bedroom - or when there was nice running around my home due to the neighbours next door!
My landlord takes forever for fix things and only ever does when when my dad calls him / the council / environmental health call him.
You’ve let her have a cat and a dog and you’ve sorted the problems in the house swiftly.
I would give her notice and then sell the house - that way you can deep clean the organise viewings - otherwise she may make it impossible for viewings / leave it messy etc
:-)

snash12 · 15/02/2018 14:51

Just remind her that you have accommodated her dog and cat when many landlords wouldn't.

I'm in my third rented place and none of them have had an issue with pets. A lot of my friends are the same.

HelenaDove · 15/02/2018 14:51

SaskaTchewan Thu 15-Feb-18 13:44:15
"People just like to wind up on these threads"

Well you would know as you are a good example of it. If you dont think ppl on low incomes should live in certain places who do you think is going to serve you your artisan produce or look after your elderly relative so you dont have to take time out from your career to do so.

Eventually this is what it will lead to and entitled ppl like you will be the first to moan when it does.

HelenaDove · 15/02/2018 14:55

"tenants dry their laundry on the radiator then complain about the mould"

And a single mother was TOLD to do this on a thread recently to
her daughters blazer when she didnt have a washing machine so had to consider handwashing it. Lots of goalpost moving when it comes to ppl on low incomes.

TheRagingGirl · 15/02/2018 14:56

Yes, you did. You are a landlord, this is your job. FFS.

Yes it is my job. Which is why I organised for it to be done.

I was countering the illogical rant about "landlords renting out damp properties."

snash12 · 15/02/2018 15:02

What is it with people and being so against renters having pets?!

We signed saying we will get a deep clean done prior to leaving.

I've seen friends rented houses with felt tip markers drawn all over the walls, badly stained carpets etc due to young children. Not all pets are dirty, smelly peeing skanks!

snash12 · 15/02/2018 15:04

*I hate this mind set that landlords are doing their tenant a huge favors left right and center just by existing conducting themselves properly.

When you go into the business of offering housing for people for financial profit there's no reason to expect gratitude from your clients for NOT being a wanker. (As with any business). How did it get this way?*

TOTALLY THIS.

WazFlimFlam · 15/02/2018 15:20

HelenaDove yes, everyone knows that clothes dried on radiators causes mould in rented properties but never those with owner occupiers in them Hmm

MotherforkingShirtballs · 15/02/2018 15:42

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/rent_reductions_when_repairs_are_a_problem

Information from Shelter on rent reductions.

If the tenant has been reasonable in letting contractors, etc into the property to complete the work (potentially having to take annual leave or rearrange shifts or plans to accommodate this), has presumably cleaned up mess resulting from the work such as plaster dust, has allowed the contractors to use her electricity/water/gas, and so on then I think a one-off reduction in the rent to reflect this is reasonable.

MotherforkingShirtballs · 15/02/2018 15:43

As a heads up, if you refuse the reduction she then has to the right to apply for compensation from you instead.

BarbarianMum · 15/02/2018 15:46

The smell. The noise. The potential for huge damage, well in excess of the deposit. Allergies.

mirime · 15/02/2018 15:54

@Piffle11

I used to work for a property management company who sorted out stuff like this for landlords, and we never reduced the rent!

Why not? My sister rented somewhere, newly refurbished, there was massive damp in one wall and the boiler didn't work, took over a month for her to have any heating and hot water. I think she was entitled to a rent reduction.

JackieReacher · 15/02/2018 16:01

OP had you already charged a premium on the deposit taken when allowing pets? did you increase that when the kitten (known for shitting on carpets and climbing curtains more than adult dogs) was announced to you?
If not, I'd remind Tenant of that and say that you're both sucking up inconvenience.

Piffle11 · 15/02/2018 16:05

@mirime because we had a team of builders/tradespeople who were there within 12 hours. We would never have let any tenant wait for over a month ... your sister's case is clearly different, is that not obvious?

MotherforkingShirtballs · 15/02/2018 16:20

If not, I'd remind Tenant of that and say that you're both sucking up inconvenience.

Why deliberately put the tenant's back up by being a dick? It's like that analogy of being unhappy with your hotel room so you shit in the bed and then complaining that you have to sleep in a shitted up bed.

Piss the tenant off too much and she'll refuse access for future repairs or estate agent visits except at her convenience, she'll refuse viewings, she may even refuse to leave on her tenancy end date if notice is served to her and force the OP to get a court order for eviction.

A little bit of give and take on both sides makes for a civilised relationship and a £50 reduction here could make all the difference between the sale going smoothly or being held up by tenant issues.

TattyCat · 15/02/2018 16:32

I'm swaying towards a £50 one off payment, having considered all the responses. I'm still uncertain about what to do with selling however but am starting to think that giving notice would be more straightforward and at least everyone knows where they are with that, i.e. tenant needs to find somewhere else and we may be left with a vacant property for some time...

OP posts:
AHungryMum · 15/02/2018 16:51

@TattyCat - speaking as an ex landlord myself, if there was genuine inconvenience to her then a one off reduction as a gesture seems reasonable. With hindsight, I should have asked one she the boiler broke three times at my old flat, at a time when it was the middle of winter and sub zero temperatures outside! As it was, all three flat mates just grumbled at the letting agents and stayed with our respective boyfriends in order to be able to get a hot shower....

Re selling, when I wanted to sell I let my tenants know in advance that I wouldn't be renewing their tenancy the following year, and that therefore gave them the opportunity to look for somewhere else in their own time rather than just having to take whatever they could get at 1-2 months notice when the time came. They really appreciated that, and it meant they did find somewhere suitable ahead of the end of the tenancy, and that therefore meant I could sell the property earlier. I did right by them by giving them a decent period of notice, and they did right by me by ensuring the property was kept presentable for viewings. They did, it turns out, have an unauthorised secret pet cat which I then found out about, which I WAS annoyed about, but the house had been kept clean and tidy, the agents didn't recommend I did anything to it before it was marketed, and I got full asking price for it, so no harm done. In short - it probably makes sense to try to keep things civilised. You scratch their back, they scratch yours, etc....

SaskaTchewan · 15/02/2018 17:12

And a single mother was TOLD to do this on a thread recently to
her daughters blazer

I doubt the advice was given by the landlord!

ExFury · 15/02/2018 17:16

@TattyCat a one of payment would be a nice goodwill gesture.

I think you are right about selling without tenants in situ. It'll be easier.

Just make sure you are aware of all the pitfalls of giving notice and get it absolutely spot on when serving otherwise it can lengthen the process by months (and add on the £££).

ExFury · 15/02/2018 17:18

Also if there's any chance at all your tenants would be looking at preferring eviction to access social housing (if they have kids especially) then make sure you know exactly what your local authority will tell them to do so you are prepared for every eventuality.

Hopefully you'll give notice and they'll leave and that will be that. Just know where you are at if it gets at all sticky.

Olga81 · 15/02/2018 17:23

When our landlords wanted to sell, we said we'd be happy to stay until they sold and allow viewings if we had a rent discount for that time.

As it was they didn't go for that so we gave notice and moved out and they had a house left empty for 6 months before it finally sold.

Mummyoflittledragon · 15/02/2018 17:26

I’m a landlord. Personally I would agree to the compensation. I once had a boiler changed with tenants in situ and asked the advice of the letting agent, who told me I didn’t need to compensate. The tenants had heat and hot water at all times - the immersion heater for hot water and several fan heaters.

However, damp proofing an outside wall is very different. Do you actually know what was involved?! They will have stripped off the plaster back to the brick, drilled a series of holes in the wall, installed the damproofing then rendered the wall and plastered. That’s a massive inconvenience in terms of filth, dust and noise not to mention the general disruption. And as you say, it all takes time. It can’t be fixed in a day as each process has to dry before going on to the next.

And as for some lls equating allowing pets to this disruption. The two are not connected.

I cannot believe some lls are saying tenants reporting issues are trouble makers. . They have to and responsible tenants will. It’s in their bloody contract. Just as responsible lls will repair their properties.

Laiste.
Most landlords aren’t making massive profits. I know this is hard to see and I’m not trying to pull violin strings. I’m stating facts. With the rise in property prices, new ll’s have been completely priced out of the market. The few properties I rent out could be afforded by a person earning around 50k a year with a 10% deposit of about 25k. But a landlord would need a minimum deposit of 25% and even then that deposit wouldn’t be enough because of loan to value and the deposit required would probably be more in the region of 100k. Now the government is phasing in paying tax on the entire income despite there being no physical income on the interest element. This will also shake more recent landlords out of the market. So although the government will be getting more money and landlords will be getting less.

I really don’t know where you’re getting your figures from that rents are higher than mortgages. The rental cost on those houses are 825-875pcm yet the mortgage for the home owner with a 25k desposit is circa 1k and will rise at the end of the fixed rate, and of course there are other associated costs, which add around 2k to the mortgage. At the end of a 2 year fixed rate, even first time buyers, who paid no stamp duty will be left right pretty much where they started as the first few years of a mortgage are mainly interest. So at the moment, it’s actually much cheaper to be a tenant than to try to become a homeowner. I could do same calculation on my home and the results would be even greater in favour of the renter.

All great and good that landlords are being priced out and sell off you may think, but people have got to have somewhere to live. The government does not have enough social housing and cannot meet that demand. Both the selling off of rental properties, stamp duty and and the tax changes have and will continue to drive up rental prices. You saw the attitude of some ll’s. This will also increase entitlement and encourage owners of nice, well maintained properties not to rent to people with pets, and in some cases people with kids. So these people will be forced to go to slum landlords, who are basically the scum of the earth.

Your anger is to a large extent aimed at the wrong people. Its not private landlords based in the U.K. that have pushed prices up over the last few years. It’s the invisible foreign investors laundering money and buying through companies in tax havens. It was reported in the news a couple of days ago that firms on the Caribbean islands own 23,000 properties, which is almost 1/4 of the number of properties owned overseas. And almost half of those overseas holdings are in London and therefore worth millions.

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