To think DP needs to be a lot stronger with EXW?

[OnTheBeaches]

Ok, so this might be long as I don't want to dripfeed. It's been prompted by something that happened last night, but I feel it points to bigger issues, and has left me wondering if DP really needs to grow a set of balls.

We are both divorced, I have 1DC and he has 2 (19 and 16). His EXW has been a nightmare ever since left her nearly 3 years ago (before I met him, I hasten to add). We have been together for just over a year. His children don't talk to him as ex wife has made it her business to avenge him for leaving her (there was no one else, they just had a shit marriage, she was emotionally abusive to him for years and he finally got the courage to leave). She has been extremely destructive since finding out that he was dating again...there have been death threats (seriously, she said she was going to hire a hitman), awful phone calls where she has hysterically bawled at him for hours at a time. This is still happening nearly 3 years later, and as far as I can see she hasn't moved on at all.
He takes all this shit as he retains some hope of having a relationship with his children again and feels the only way to do that is to take the calls and to take the abuse. Against the advice of his solicitor he gave her 70% of the assets in the financial settlement in the hope that it would help matters with the children. Of course it didn't change anything. She hates him and wants the kids to hate him too. I dread to think the effect this may have on them long term.
At the start of our relationship I stayed out of it all and didn't get involved as it wasn't my place or business, but it's becoming increasingly difficult not to when these almost weekly phone calls upset him for days, his children's atttitides and allegiance with their mother kills him and their belief in the lies she tells means that they now hate me too (she is spreading about lies that we had been having an affair all along which is absolute nonsense as I didn't even know him when he was with her). The threats also now are made against me, rude comments and nastiness, telling him he was a shit dad and a horrible person for leaving her, that everyone hates him and he deserves to die (totally insane behaviour). Generally it just feels like she rules us from afar, and we are never free from the shadow she casts.

My real issue is that he has taken a line of appeasement with this up to now, and puts up with all the abuse, it seems to be the way it was in his marriage too and I personally think his ex has mental health issues. To begin with I didn't realise what she was like and agreed that he should try to be nice to her and to foster a good relationship, as I thankfully have with my ex. But due to everything that's gone on in the last year I have radically changed my opinion and am now beginning to see him as weak, taking all this crap from her and not having a backbone to fight back. It hasn't worked so far and I think he needs to radically change tack. His children at this point don't really want to see him or talk to him and barely respond to texts, they are being fed complete propaganda by his exw. I don't really know what he should do, but it's really getting me down and beginning to affect our relationship, which is otherwise great.

The last straw was last night when we were out with my dc as we are away for half term. She called him and he stepped out of the coffee shop to take her call. He was gone for an hour. I didn't make a big deal of it when he returned as he was upset. We were just getting ready to leave as we had a dinner reservation, and she called again. He stepped out. Me and dc walked slowly to the restaurant and arrived. DP didn't arrive for another 40 minutes by which time I was getting upset and annoyed, dc was hungry and it was extremely embarrassing in the restaurant. She was just on the phone to have a go at him for being in contact with the children and not telling her first (they are 19 and 16). He was on the phone listening to her abuse for nearly 2 hours while me and dc sat around and waited.

I want to be supportive but I just don't know what to do anymore and am really worried about this continuing and potentially driving me and DP apart. AIBU for wishing he would grow a set of balls and tell her to eff off?

You are, by extension, also putting up with her crap. You are also making it ok, by sitting around with your DC waiting for two hours.

You can’t make him stand up to her. However, you can totally choose to stand up for yourself and your DC.

He may have no backbone but it doesn't really sound like you have one either tbh, letting your kids sit around twiddling their thumbs getting hungry. Not a chance would I subject my children to nonsense like that.

Did you tell him that you were unhappy that he left you for 2 hours, that your dc were hungry waiting for him. Mabey time t start telling him.

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. I think it's a bit harsh to just suggest LTB. Your poor DP - how many of us would have the strength to cut the only link with our DCs? Although is she his only link - you said one of the times she rang up to rant was because he contacted them without telling her? Also, she has ground him down for years so it's not so much that he has no balls/backbone as that he has been run over by a steamroller repeatedly and his self esteem is at rock bottom. She will have convinced him that he is worthless.

Anyway, I do have some idea of what this is like - DH's ex has been similar but not so bad - no death threats. Have a google of using Grey Rock to deal with narcissists - we found it helpful. Your roll in this is to help him feel worth something again - remind him he is not worthless, and to trust his own judgment instead of hers. I am also finding it helpful to remind DH that I deserve his care and thought too - not a competition with his kids, just normal care and respect. The phonecalls for example - no loving dad is going to ignore the phone in case it's an emergency, but once he finds out its just a rant call he is not a bad person if he says, very calmly and matter of fact, something on the lines of "We are not discussing this", then put the phone down and not keep you hanging about for an hour. Have you told him how crap this is for you?

He is putting her before you by taking the phone calls. If it was his children phoning then that would be different but it's not.

Think you are at a crossroads in this relationship. Either he stands up to her and puts you first or you break it off.

Of course there is the option of just putting up with him behaving like this but l think you are worth more than that - don't you?

Are you my sil?? Db's ex is just like this - always creating drama, constantly texting and phoning him to rant about his latest misdemeanours. Eventually they went to court over access to dc - but it's never-ending. I don't see how it's going to change and it's destroying his marriage. 😔

We would have started without him, I had ordered him a drink hoping he would soon turn up, and we just held off a bit as it's not much fun to eat like that. The main waiting times were in the coffee shop and then walking slowly to the restaurant.
It was disrespectful to my son and myself and our time, and I was annoyed about it - but he was upset by another phone call, that for me to carry my anger on would only have made him feel much worse.

I don't want to end up being an enabler of a dysfunctional relationship. Neither to want to become a doormat. I don't want to be unreasonable as I would like his children to be part of our lives, but I truly am fed up to the back teeth of this woman and the impact she has on our lives.

If it was me, I'd have told her where to fuck off to long ago. I wouldn't have put up with behaviour like that from my ex for one minute.

Thanks everyone for all your responses so far. And thanks WhatALovelyPear, I think your advice it really helpful.

You should have told him later, he needed to know the impact of that on you and DC. It seemed like he cared more for her, than you. Or he would have told her to deck off.

But you are pussyfooting around this by not telling him how much it pisses you off because he is "already upset"

What about you and your dc upset ? Does that count ? He doesn't seem to think so.

I think I've seen your previous posts, several in fact, saying the same thing.
Unless I'm mistaken in which case, apologies.

He isn't going to do anything about it, just leave them to it, for your own sanity.
He obviously isn't ready for a relationship and may even go back to her if you were out of the picture.

The children are actually adults. Well one definitely is. He doesn’t need to talk to her at all. He can simply hang up/block her number, if he wanted to. The question is: why hasn’t he already? She’s got one hell of a hold over him for some reason. If he’s been emotionally abused for a long time it could just be a habit, he’s been conditioned over time to take her shit. Or she’s literally blackmailing him. Or he’s got no testicles whatsoever.

Give him a month. Tell him either he puts the phone down when she's ranting or he blocks her calls. No life for your child. Get them out of this toxic mess. How desperately do want a man? Get one that doesn't come with an airport full of baggage. What would happen if you fell pregnant? Or if you're that desperate, live separately, then your child is safe and you can still have a life. But this will never end, as it is your enabling it to continue. Your there to pick up the pieces for him and give him a life.

I've found it hard to put my foot down about this, I don't want to come across as someone who wants him not to have a relationship with his children. And whenever I have become more vocal and annoyed by his ex and her continued shit, he gets defensive and then I wonder if I'm in the wrong myself. Don't get me wrong, he doesn't defend her, but he tells me he won't do anything that could damage hopes of his children coming back to him.
I feel like I can't go about laying down the law, but it's dragging me down. I am one thing, but I really object to it impacting on my dcs life and our time together.

Urgh, until I wrote this thread, I genuinely wondered if I was the one being unreasonable and that I just had to put up with this cycle of shite because I chose this relationship. At this point, I'd like to say that our relationship is otherwise amazing, and he is a lovely man. It's the fact he is so lovely that has prevented him from telling her to sling her hook long ago!

Gillybeans, this is my first ever post about this, that must have been someone else.

He picks up her calls because he chooses to.

He's on the phone to her for hours because he chooses to be.

I think you need to face this. Sorry.

What was she ranting at him about for two hours?

You say he stepped outside to have these conversations, have you actually witnessed them first hand? Because I don’t buy that someone with adult children is going to stand by and do nothing while the ex makes death threats, rings weekly for two hour long rants, turns the kids against them and they are an innocent bystander. No way

There is more to this that he isn’t telling you IMO. I agree with AF, she has something on him. She might have been a nasty individual, but I don’t believe he’s an innocent bystander in it all. His eldest was sixteen when he left, you honestly think that someone could turn those children against him just like that with no concrete evidence?

I’d bet money that he did have an affair, that she may have been nasty but that he had an affair which led him to realise he didn’t want to stay any more, and that she’s using that against him, even more so now that you are on the scene.

If he wanted to tell his nineteen year old the truth he would have. So why hasn’t he?

I would walk away from him now. No good can come of this relationship.

His kids are 16 and 19 now.old enough to communicate without mum getting involved. Especially nowadays with facebook, texts etc. Your not being unreasonable. If hes not progressed before using this method, it isn't working. He's best backing off, and try to keep communicating with his kids via other methods. Your going to be long time waiting for this to end. If his kids have been brain washed they're not going to suddenly want to start talking. Also they're probably both angry (kids) and that doesn't help. Sometimes kids need to grow up before they can see the whole thing etc. Get for your childs sake, as it will never end in my opinion.

Onthebeaches the kids are 16 and 19, presumably they have their own phones, and are able to make contact themselves with him, there is no need for her. This will just continue, you and dcs being second best, not to them, but to her. He should not have been on that phone for 2 hours, considering he was out with you, totally unacceptable and disrespectful, and yes you should have told him, stuff that he was upset, you were upset too.

I don't think its going to get any better, stay and you will have more of the same, leave and you don't have to put up with that rubbish anymore. He is not ready for another relationship when he is still attached to her.

If his children have been poisoned by her there is little chance him staying on the phone for two hours is going to change anything. If he is not in contact now is there really any chance of change until they are in a place to want to themselves especially the adult.

I'd give him the ultimatum now tbh, he has a week to drop the exw.
It would mean nc at all, or I'd be gone.
You have a child who shouldn't be living like this, I feel sorry for him tbh.
All the others even your partners children are grown up, this poor wee lad has nothing to do with any of this.

apologies OP, exactly the same thing happened in restaurant with another poster, in the same situation as you., also with a ds, and together the same length of time, the exw exactly the same.

wow, gillybeans. I don't suppose you have the link to that thread now? Would love to see the advice given to the person on the other similar thread. Seems like there are a lot of bitter ex wives out there and a lot of men letting them get away with it.

I honestly agree with everyone's advice this far, and thank you for your thoughts. Sometimes it really helps to get objective opinions - you fear you're going mad otherwise.
I won't give up on him, he is a gold man and I really love him, but we can't continue like this, this has to stop. Hopefully I'll have more confidence in dealing with this now.

Good man, not gold man...

I would give him another (but last)chance. I think he should record the next two rants. Then he should meet up with the children ( you said he was able to talk to them) and he can play part of her rants. He can say, I have had three years of this and I cannot take it anymore. I also think he should say that me accepting these calls is not allowing her to move on with her life. If anything it seems to be making her more angry. He can say, you are grown up now, I love you and want a relationship with you both but I realise you don't want to upset your mum. I am going to block your mother now and not accept her calls. You can list me on your phone as something other than Dad. If one of you is in trouble, the other can contact me. Its not going behoynd her back. It's helping her to move on.

If he refuses to cut her off and block her, then I agree with the others, he has not left the relationship with his ex wife and he may not be in live with her but he is addicted to the drama.

I'd second the grey rock technique. One of the most liberating things I found when I split with my narc ex was that when he rang up and started ranting I could just cut the call off. The power to do that had been denied me throughout our relationship as he always manipulated me into feeling that it (whatever it was) was my fault. After we split I read up about doing grey rock and it is so empowering, just to be able to listen to the rant start and being able to answer I'm not interested in arguing with you so I'm going to go now and hang up the phone gave me a sense of control. The good thing is the more you do it the easier it becomes. He can speak to his dc directly. They are both old enough to make their own minds up about whether they want a relationship with their Father and they don't need to tell her that they are talking to him. I would encourage him to communicate directly with his children, make sure they know he is there for them and they are welcome in his home.