To feel sad about fiance's thoughts re wedding?

[squishytomato]

Sorry for long post in advance... Background: fiance is divorced (amicable split, no kids) and we've been together nearly 2.5 years (got together after he split with his ex). We have a 3 month old son who we both adore. Talked about marriage before I got pregnant - we decided it was important to both of us and we would eventually get married, but as age wasn't on my side we'd try for a baby first. Fiance proposed while I was pregnant, and now baby is here we're starting to talk about wedding plans. Problem is that it is my first marriage and his second.

I am pretty easygoing and definitely not a bridezilla - for instance we've been engaged since August and there's no ring or talk of wedding logistics until recently (baby was no1 priority obviously)! I am fully aware the MARRIAGE is what counts, and the day is after all, just one day. I can easily dispense with much of the 'fluff' that accompanies your typical wedding. Having said that, there are aspects of a wedding that are important to me. My fiance has said he wants to be married but doesn't like the idea of a ceremony/celebration. As it is his second time round he thinks it should be a very small understated thing (his first was full church white wedding 100+ guests etc). I think the whole saying the vows part freaks him out, given he said them before and it didn't last. For me, the ceremony marks the start of married life, and expressing those vows is supposed to be a meaningful moment. Of course it's not ideal that he's said them before and it didn't work out. But surely the point is it's his first time saying them to me? He claims no men are interested in the wedding day but most just won't admit it.

As to the logistics, his ideal would be to elope and not have anyone present at all - the thought of this makes me a bit sad TBH. I've compromised and I'm happy with a small registry office / pub lunch type thing with a small guest list, but now it seems he doesn't want to invite any of his friends/family other than his parents. He has said he will compromise by letting me invite "who I want" as long as he can invite who he wants, i.e. just his folks. AIBU in not being happy with this? It would be my core family and friends and just his parents on his side, i.e. basically a wedding party that is nearly all on my side? To me it feels like he is almost ashamed/embarrassed about it being his second time round and he doesn't want people who came to his first wedding to see him say the same words to someone else. He claims shame/embarrassment are not a factor, and it's just that he feels inviting his side would make him "seem blasé about marriage/divorce". I don't mind about having a small wedding, but what is important to me is us standing up in front of our nearest and dearest and proudly saying 'I pick you'. It might be sentimental, but that's how I feel.

I don't doubt for a moment that he is over his ex (he says he is much more sure about me than he was about her), or that he feels ending his prior marriage was the right thing to do, but nevertheless I feel that there is some sort of an unresolved issue with simply being divorced (I think he thinks of it as some sort of failure) that he's not prepared to admit. Am I crazy in thinking there is a difference between accepting the fact that the marriage failed and moving on, and being blasé about divorce? AIBU for thinking the fact he was married before is intruding too much into all of this? I'm starting to feel like I can't get married to him at all while he isn't at peace with how things turned out last time. Of course I wouldn't split up with him (we have our baby to think about), however the thought of not being married to him makes me miserable.

But then again, I've never been through a divorce - so maybe I am being unreasonable?!

a friend of mine when preparing for her second marriage said almost word for word this embarrassed about it being his second time round and he doesn't want people who came to his first wedding to see him say the same words to someone else

I think it is probably true to say that, very generally, most men do not want a big white wedding but go along with it for their partner's happiness.
My wedding was small (about 30 guests) and relaxed but I was definitely not one of those girls who dream about being a bride. First dances, wedding favours, cakes on slices of wood??? It makes me cringe...
TBH I think the idea of marriage does get lost in the wedding. The excesses can be naff and sickening, trying to show off that you can afford the best of everything when you'd be much better off putting it towards a house deposit or saving for your children.
When you've done it once, you realise what really matters.

All this sexist guff about men not wanting / woman wanting white weddings is depressing.

I am married but if I went through it again I would only want a registry office and pub. As it just feels too showy to have two extravaganzas in a life time. Also embarrassing since most of the ceremony is about life time commitment and a divorcee has to concede thst it's not as binding as it sounds.

Invite your friends, have a party. You already have a baby so your lives are entwined forever already.

Divorce is embarrassing. He has stood up there in front of hundreds of people and promised to be with his ex forever and it did not happen. People will have wondered what went wrong and who was at fault. They may well be rolling their eyes saying I wonder how long this one will last.

Marriage is a bit of a contradiction nowadays. We pretend that it is forever while knowing we can always get a divorce. If you have already done it once, there is no hiding that.

You would think some people on this thread lived in a rarified world were 99% of marriages lasted till one participant died. A first marriage failing, without a acrimonious split and children caught in the cross fire, seems nothing to be embarrassed about to me.
If it’s literally the words there are various forms that vows can take.

I just went to my brother's wedding and family aside, he didn't seem to have any friends there, so the bride's side way outnumbered his. No one cared or even noticed. It would be nice of him to invite some of them I think. But you shouldn't worry about the impact on the ceremony if he doesn't.

They may well be rolling their eyes saying I wonder how long this one will last

In which case "they" will be bellends.

It's your day to why do u not get to have some things that u want to just because he was married before that's not ure fault the 2 of use need to write out what u wod want urd wedding to be and pick things from both ideas u don't want to get married in a wedding u don't like or want

I I would not go through with a wedding with someone who though my wishes were irrelevant and wanted to deny me the (only, I hope) chance to wear a meringue

They would be having a lucky escape then if all you care about is the dress and a big show off day rather than the grooms feelings and the vows.

Second weddings are embarrassing for many, having publicly declared to be together until death do us part then breaking those vows and making them again with someone else she's that marriage isn't taken seriously. Far too easy to get divorced.

Yellow can you read? Where in the phrase "someone who thought my wishes were irrelevant" do you read that all I care about is a big day?
See for me it was a big day, and lovely to hear my dh make promises to me in corny of friends and family. If I'd thought he was embarrassed to do that then I certainly wouldn't have gone ahead with the marriage.
Anyone listening to someone make wedding vows knows the chances are low that they will be kept until death.

I’d take him at his word, invite who you want to invite – friends family, whoever you would have done anyway. If he just has his parents there then that’s up to him. We didn’t ask people to sit in the church according to bride or groom anyway so it won’t necessarily be obvious.

I've only been married once, but I think I only invited my parents, sisters and two friends to my wedding. My husband invited 250 of his closest friends and family. It doesn't mean anything other than he literally doesn't care about anything other than marrying you.
Or perhaps he's a little superstitious and wants to do everything as differently as possible this time, to try to avoid the same outcome.

Will it necessarily be the same vows? We married in a Registry Office and the vows weren't the same as in church, and I think nowadays you can in effect write your own.

We had a tiny wedding, fewer than 20, but with nice dress for me, bouquet, buttonholes, wedding cake. Small reception at my parents' house, really happy occasion, lots of smiling guests, and I have nothing but good memories.

The only thing I missed was the church bells, but as an atheist I wasn't going to get those anyway!

Would he consider what we did? Second marriage for both.

We had the ceremony in a register office and then the next day had the reception. So, speeches, cake, dress, bridesmaids handing out favours and helping, disco.

I understand how he feels. My second marriage was low key with just immediate family but it was a second marriage for both of us. We mainly wanted the legal framework and to show we were committed (and too old to have a boyfriend and I have business partners so calling him my partner felt wrong because he wasn't). The party/ circus aspect of it wasn't important.

we wrote our own vows so no 'til death us do part, more hoping to grow old together.

I don't think it's too easy to get divorced and don't think anyone should feel marriage is a life sentence and they're stuck with someone forever. I now view "'til death us do part" as a sinister, punitive vow.

Never mind the wedding, have a look at how many other things you don't get to do, or have, because he's already done them/isn't interested/doesn't think they are important. If practically every decision or change or action has to be on the basis that you compromise, in case he bursts into tears or his dick falls off, then that may not be the greatest basis for marriage in the first place.

It's up to the individuals to decide and if they don't agree on things then there's a problem. Personally I think if either person has been married before people shouldn't have the works.

How is he on compromising usually? My friend was in a similar situation to you. Her DH refused to have a big wedding but tbh it was symptomatic of his complete inability to compromise over anything. He was inflexible in their relationship and hence inflexible in their wedding planning.
I'm quite old fashioned. I think weddings are an opportunity for the two families to spend time together too and I'd be unhappy that he's denying not just you but your family and his family, the chance to recognise and cement your relationship and their's.

He needs to consider your feelings too. It's your first wedding. Maybe talk about the things you're flexible on but explain that there are certain things you want - like to have support and share your day with his friends and family too.

I also think the way round him having said the vows before is to write your own.

Bully for HIM.... it's your Wedding too... and your FIRST

We had about 25 at a church wedding on a week day which was quite a nice compromise. Here is letting you have any many people as you like! The fact he is just inviting family is fine - you can't force him to have a lot of friends or want them to be here. I woudl be worried though if he had not a single person as I'd assume he had a hidden family or past or criminal past and was hiding stuff which is often the case when someone says they have no relatives and you never meet their friends.

Has he maybe lost some of his friends when his marriage broke down? Is he embarrassed and thinking only his close family would turn up?

I lost many people that I had thought would be friends for life when I broke up with an ex. It shook my trust so much that I struggled to make new friends for years afterwards.

I've often thought that the more showy and expensive the wedding, the shorter the resultant marriage - the extreme examples being the ones that feature in Hello magazine...!
What matters is your future life together, and the state of your relationship, not the size or fuss of your wedding.
My wedding cost £13. (That was for a licence.) We didn't dress up and there were no guests, just two witnesses and a registrar. I went back to work the next morning. We loved each other to bits and were happy for our whole 16 years together until he died of a brain haemorrhage.
Have a think about what really matters to the two of you. Are you sure that a silly dress you'll never wear again, and overpriced catering and flowers are more important than the life you have with each other?
When I look back now from my position of 26 years as a widow, the lack of a splashy wedding is certainly not the thing I grieve over!