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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if skinny shaming is as bad as fat shaming?

98 replies

upsideup · 09/02/2018 09:40

I'm not trying to deny the reality of fat shaming or downplay the seriousness of it, I thinks its disgusting and rightfully as far as I am aware most people view it as completely unacecceptable, I'm just questioning why skinny shaming is still so socially acceptable. This thread is slightly inspired by some comments I have seen on other threads recently but is not a TAAT as such, I wanted to ask this question wihout derailing someone elses thread.

I am in stable recovery from anorexia now and have kept myself within the healthy BMI range for over 10 years, but my ED is irrelevant to this post as few people I now talk to know nothing about it, I dont know if they would be more sensitive if they did but it shouldnt matter, I know many slim people who have never had an eating disorder and are a healthy weight but who have experianced skinny shaming

I never comment on other peoples weight (big or small), I never purposely put anyone in a position where they would be made bad to feel bad about their weight or body because I know how horrible it feels. But just in the last few weeks I've had the 'Your so skinny' 'too skinny' 'Skeleton' comments from strangers and even 'Skinny bitch' comments. I've also been informed that men like bigger women and wouldnt my DH like me to have a bigger arse or when I decline food I am pushed to accept because 'I look like I could do with a cake' and this isnt by one individial, it's by many and in front of many, not once did anyone bat an eyelid and its normally just followed by laughter or agreement from others.

I guess I've never been overweight or been fat shamed so I cant get the full picture but AIBU in thinking skinny shaming is just as bad as fat shaming? and not understand why people dont think so?
I'm definately willing to be explained to why its not the same and that I am being unreasonable but please be a little gentle with me, I'm not trying to cause offence.

OP posts:
GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 09/02/2018 11:03

Ah, the 'fast metabolism' thing - 'you're so lucky, you can eat whatever you like and not put weight on, it's not fair...' - - I've had that, too.
Mostly from a friend who'd complain about her weight, but then freely admit that e.g. she'd scoffed a whole large apple pie with cream, by herself, in one go.
She just didn't want to believe that I didn't eat much, and didn't even like creamy things - despite my telling her more than once.

Presumably it made her feel better to think it was just luck, and that I was also stuffing my face on a daily basis.

Noloot · 09/02/2018 11:05

I don't mind because I've never had an eating disorder I'm just a picky eater with a small appetite and I run.

I understand if people have ED or had one possibly making them more sensitive.

My mum was a big women who can't move fast as becomes short of breath, has acid reflux ( hiatus hernia ) arthritis and hypertension.
What a mess.
I don't ever want to become my mother & suffer like she does.

Glenscoconut · 09/02/2018 11:16

My sister is overweight and I've seen her get fat shamed and it breaks my heart. I think they are both equally horrible, nobody has the right to negatively comment on someone else's appearance.

One of the worst I had was your DP must be a pedo, you look like a little girl.

At 5ft 2 and 47kg, I am just small.

It absolutely devastated me that my physical appearance could have negative connotations for my DP. I now know that they were just a first class tosser, but it took me a long time to realise that other peoples opinions on my weight did not matter.

I think the nastiness comes from peoples own insecurities, and they are not worth your time OP. You are a real woman, if they think your small frame makes you less of one then they need to get over themselves.

The world would be a better place if people kept their nasty opinions to themselves.

CougheeBean · 09/02/2018 11:19

I do think it's also worth bearing the media in mind with these kinds of discussions - ALL 'desirable' or 'aspirational' women in media are slim. Fat celebrities are subjected to horrible comments from the public and media, whereas slim ones only get praise until they become clearly very unhealthy. People even have the audacity to discuss whether plus-sized models and clothing stores should exist - as if bigger people have no right to be clothed or see their clothing on a relevant body. I think that negative comments towards a bigger body can hit a lot harder when you're being constantly attacked by society, whereas skinny shaming feels (to me) like a mini-outrage that not every single person agrees with the media and wider society's ideal of a skinny body. Not saying that it's ok to skinny shame at all, just that it's part of a much smaller assault on their existance than with fat shaming.

MouldyVoldy · 09/02/2018 11:22

I am not slim at the moment, but I used to be pretty slim, before and between children. I have definitely experienced ‘skinny shaming.’ My old manager at work would make me feel very uncomfortable about my size, she was very overweight. I never made any unkind comments about her weight, but apparently it was ok for her to do it to me. I also got so many back handed comments when I lost the weight from my first pregnancy. It annoyed me, because I felt good about myself for the first time in a very long time, and I felt like they were ruining it for me. Guess they’ll all be happy now, because I’m 8 weeks pp, and am huge. 😂

Tarraleaha · 09/02/2018 11:32

People even have the audacity to discuss whether plus-sized models and clothing stores should exist

of course anyone can buy clothes, but trying to push the idea that being unhealthy is not a positive thing. It's not being judgemental to state the fact that being overweight or being anorexic is not "healthy" and it's not a positive thing.

lljkk · 09/02/2018 11:35

Some people are thoughtless (can include me) & sometimes they are downright assholes. I can't say it helps me to get mad at them or have a strong opinion about the right or wrong of what they said. Because they still said it & I can't change them; me getting cross or trying to decide what the ultimate correct principle is (like "is skinny shaming terrible?"), doesn't help me at all.

About shame, shame is a door you let open. You have some power in this situation to think "Gee what an unpleasant/weird/jerk thing to say" instead of "He's right, there's something wrong with me".

I'm not blaming anyone who feels upset about something said by others. I'm trying to say there is a way for you to be less upset and to have some/more control over how you feel. You can't change them, but you can change your beliefs about whether their opinion matters. Don't give other people that power to make you feel bad. If their opinion starts to make you feel bad: the problem is them, not you.

CupcakeLover225 · 09/02/2018 11:36

I’ve been on both sides of this as I was a size 24 now a size 8. It’s been a very gradual loss over a number of years.

When I was larger none of my friends ever commented on my weight but I did overhear fat comments multiple times out and about from strangers. I will be honest and say it didn’t really bother me as I knew I was Large.

Now I’m a size 8 every one comments. I absolutely hate it and never mention my weight as I feel it’s no ones business but mine.
People constantly call me out on it usually in group situations and I find it totally embarrassing.

So called friends have really hurt my feelings one called me out on being ugly and a pea head and said she would rather be fat than ugly like me.

Others will tell me to my face how awful I now look, others can’t tell me to my face so message me to call me out on it.

My default saying is now “thanks but I didn’t ask your opinion”

It’s made me very self conscious if I’m honest. I am gaining my confidence back but when I’m around certain people I find I’m wearing clothes that are too baggy to avoid the negativity as it’s constant.

My opinion on this is: people calling you out for being skinny seems almost accepted. If you said the same to a larger person well it would go down like a lead ballon wouldn’t it?

If someone said to me your so skinny, and I said to them well your so fat, I’d expect a smack in the mouth quite rightly so. So why is it acceptable the other way round?

Littlechocola · 09/02/2018 11:37

Sadly you do get used to the comments. I’m happy being me. Eating a cake or other lovely advice given won’t magically make me a more acceptable size.
You only have to flick through a magazine to see one page of diet tips followed by a ‘she’s lost too much’ article. You can’t win.
I know that I’m happy and healthy.

windchimesabotage · 09/02/2018 11:45

I think it is the same at the very extremes. Obviously some skinny shaming isnt actually real shaming because the person will be a healthy weight and they will be getting teased out of jealousy. People of a healthy weight who are teased may find it upsetting but they are still in the position of power/privilege. That is not the same as fat shaming.

However, when people tease underweight people I think that is just as bad as fat shaming. Underweight people could have many reasons why they are underweight which are painful and/or out of their control. They are at as much of a disadvantage as overweight people (altho I do think the bracket is larger ie you can be less overweight and suffer bad consequences whereas with skinnier people you can be slightly underweight and still be considered something to admire, like a model for example, so Im only talking about the extremes here)

My mum has MS and is a size 0 because of it and she gets quite a lot of comments which are really hurtful and have made her depressed. Theres not a lot she can do about her weight and yet people seem to insist she has done it to herself out of vanity and is somehow a bad person for being that thin.

Its such a shame theres such a narrow band of what society deems it acceptable for a woman to look like!

Theres also the type of skinny shaming about flat chestedness that goes on isnt there? Id say that was as bad as fat shaming sometimes too.

velourvoyageur · 09/02/2018 11:45

I think thin-shaming has its roots in the same systemic oppression of women which insists we adhere to certain beauty standards, but that we don't consider it in this context because we see it as relevant only to fat-shaming, due to the fact that it takes a very different form. Often it doesn't even really mean 'you're too thin', but 'I felt the need to make a comment about how you're not perfect but had to couch it somehow'.

Women are asked to fit into a very narrow conception of what attractiveness is. This means that many women - overweight or underweight - will struggle to be seen as attractive by those who create and perpetuate this conception, as it is so exhaustive ('blemish-free skin, tick, hourglass figure, tick - ah, but we don't like your cankles, end of the road for you') and specific, and indeed it will be completely out of reach for many. It is impossible not to have a 'blemish' or 'defect' anywhere, so there is always a reason to punish a woman on the grounds of her appearance. That said, 'thin' is in, but 'stick thin' is vilified. Overweight is always vilified simply because it is 'not-thin'. I would suggest that, crucially, more people are seen as unacceptable because they are overweight than seen as unacceptable because they are stick thin, simply because the 'not-thin' area is so expansive and contains more variance, whereas stick thin is differentiated from thin only by a very slight margin, since the beauty ideal is already for people to be practically underweight, and significantly fewer people will fit into the very-underweight category. In this beauty climate, once you verge on the wrong side of 'underweight', there is a short way to go until you have serious health issues or die, whereas once you're past the 'acceptable' thinness and into the 'not-thin' category, you can still be healthy if you don't have the required BMI - e.g. size 12, 14 etc - and thus those who are 'not-thin' are much more visible by virtue of just being greater in number.

Consequently, anti-fat sentiment is overwhelmingly more present in, say, the media (however subtle or overt it is), and so in popular discourse, because there are more people against whom to direct it.

When people are criticised for being slim, it often isn't recognised that the person criticising is playing right into the same sort of attitude that produces this anti-fat feeling i.e. 'this woman is falling short of XYZ standards, presented as my own opinion'. However, due to the reasons outlined above, it is not seen as symptomatic of any structural oppression of women because there isn't much overt evidence of anti-thin feeling being disseminated by the influential and anonymous groups who control e.g. advertisement and marketing. Our awareness of what constitutes 'unacceptable' on the other side of the weight spectrum is much more vague, although we still operate within this understanding that only a very small space on the spectrum - somewhere very left of the centrepoint, but not too left - is 'acceptable'. It is more nebulous not only because fewer people statistically will be the 'unacceptable' version of thin, but because we use the same word, 'thin', to refer to its 'good' and 'bad' versions, whereas 'fat' is always pejorative - so you'll hear someone saying in reaction to someone's change in weight, 'don't you look lovely and slim!' but never 'you're looking lovely and fat', even if the weight gain was medically advisable or safe.

If 'thin' is then contextualised as negative, it thus comes across as a very personal conclusion, at which the person has arrived in their own individual vacuum, and not representative of a hegemonic socially and institutionally constructed attitude which much more explicitly tells you not to be 'not-thin'. A personal remark may smart, but at least you don't feel like the world is against you; you can dismiss them as rude and weird and shrug the comment off. It won't serve to consolidate other accumulated remarks you receive from family, thinly veiled criticism coming up unexpectedly on TV, the realisation that you hardly ever see an overweight model advertising a range not specifically designated as 'plus-size', comments from professionals you thought could be trusted to be sensitive...to form a homogenous mass of contempt on which you can count everyone with whom you come into contact having been exposed to and, to some extent, having absorbed. The people who make these comments are aware of this.
The fairly insidious nature of thin-shaming means that we don't recognise the overarching structure of the 'beauty myth', as we're led to think that, due to its scale and our common perception of 'thin' as a uniformly privileged sphere, it's disconnected to other issues which have begun to be addressed (e.g. fat-shaming is become less overt because it has been identified as a problem). People feel freer to say shit like this as they don't see how it links in with harmful expectations of women's bodies generally. And recipients feel freer to ignore it because they think it is connected to personal preference.

Very misunderstood. I think people who challenge thin-shaming are right to do so, despite the fact that it doesn't take the same form as fat-shaming (so that people will raise an eyebrow at the comparison), as it has no place in a society where health and not beauty is the motivator behind weight loss or gain.

CougheeBean · 09/02/2018 11:46

Why should unhealthy people not have clothes? Why should they not be able to see clothes on their own body types before buying?

RockinHippy · 09/02/2018 11:46

YADNBU, I had it most of my life, "ugh, look at you, you need to eat more pies" anorexic comments when I ate plenty etcHmm

DD is going through it right now with 2 girls she thought were good friends, both are slim, but after DD posted a photo of herself & expressed excitement at finally finding a pair of jeans that fit her tiny hour glass frame properly, have turned on her. Apparently she was showing off & boasting about her small waist, even though she definitely wasn't 🙄

LovingMyDarkAndStormy · 09/02/2018 11:55

My ExH told me last week that I looked disgusting, that I had the face of a 46 yo but the body of a 9 yo.
Hence why he is my ex

Tarraleaha · 09/02/2018 11:59

Why should unhealthy people not have clothes?
that's not what anyone is saying, it's not about the clothes, it's about the message that it's a positive thing to be unhealthy, being overweight or other.

It's not. You don't see cigarette-smoking models being parade in magazine or on catwalk, you don't start cigarette-smoking model competition. Models might be smokers for all we care, but no one is pushing the message that it's ok to smoke.

FluffyWuffy100 · 09/02/2018 12:01

One of my friends has the perfect figure - shimmy but tones and strong and healthy.

People are always like “oh isn’t she so lucky” she isn’t luck! She works out 6 times a week and eats very moderately and doesn’t drink much! She works hard at her body. People don’t like to think that you too could have an amazing body if only you put the work in, it must just be luck.

Graphista · 09/02/2018 12:02

@As a child my mum was treated as if she wasnt feeding me properly." Yes I've had this as a mum and my mum and my gran too have been accused of not feeding their DC properly.

It just so happens in our family that side anyway. We're naturally slim except the women tend to balloon upon first pregnancy. So myself, sister, mum, aunts and gran (and I suspect further back too) have all experienced BOTH as well as being accused of being neglectful mothers - fucking delightful!

Dd is 5'10" and a size 8 - I think she pretty much eats constantly these days (typical teen). She's never liked chocolate or chips but there's plenty of other calorie laden food she loves and she certainly eats enough portion wise!

As I said recently on another thread I've had COMPLETE strangers TELL me to "get that child to a dr ASAP and get that anorexia treated" "she looks like she just left a concentration camp" (yes really! How I didn't lose my shit on that one I'll never know!)

Personally I think both as bad as each other in terms of how it makes you feel but being fat definitely gets you discriminated against in certain jobs. If there's any manual work elements gay people are assumed to be incapable of the work or likely to be lazy. My mum has been overweight all my life but has also mainly worked in very physically demanding jobs and even though now retired is still physically fitter and has more stamina than a lot of people I know 20 years younger!

Men do sometimes experience it but I disagree with pp who said it was "just as bad" for them. I understand it may feel just as hurtful but in terms of societal expectations it's not the same. Men aren't judged on their bodies as often or as harshly as women. Generally speaking. That said I have male cousins who work in the construction industry and they've had a couple of employers query of they're up to the work. They are both extremely slim (again even though they eat loads of high calorie food) but they are very strong and fit.

It's NEVER acceptable.

The "real woman" crap really pisses me off! As women we should not be succumbing to misogynistic parameters to turn against each other! We get enough crap from men!

Graphista · 09/02/2018 12:04

Ffs wish there was an edit function - far people not gay people

NotASingleFuckToGive · 09/02/2018 12:05

I've been at both ends of the scales (literally!), and shamed for both.

Everyone is different, but personally found being fat shamed more damaging, because due to society holding thinness as the aspirational ideal, a lot of judgement on thinness is rooted in jealousy; where with being overweight, people just judge you out of disgust.

I accept my judgement on this may be flawed though, as I've been relieved of Bridesmaid duty for my 'friend' this year due to my weight Hmm

RockinHippy · 09/02/2018 12:09

Notas your friend is a bitch!! I do hope you told her where to stick her wedding & "friendship" Hmm

Graphista · 09/02/2018 12:10

I'm with rockin I hope you told her to shove her wedding up her arse! What a nasty piece of work!

DenPerry · 09/02/2018 12:52

They both can be hurtful and shouldn't be said. Weight shouldn't ever be commented on but we seem obsessed by it as a society.
I've been fat most of my life so when I have been skinny, I've taken any comments as compliments. "Your face looks like a skull" really made me happy Blush It's conditioning isn't it. Thin = good, fat = bad.

amicissimma · 09/02/2018 12:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

halfwitpicker · 09/02/2018 13:02

People pretend to believe that being skinny is luck.

^

Never thought of it like that, but it's true.

It seems to me like toy can never win: people either comment that you need to gain weight, or have a biscuit or whatever or that you need to slow down on the noodles.

RolyRocks · 09/02/2018 13:29

YANBU OP.

I was bullied at school for being too skinny. "Oh skinny bitch - you can't join in this conversation because you don't understand" to hitting me because I was flaunting my 'skinnyness' in their face.
This continued with adults asking me in the street (yes that happens a lot) and in swimming changing rooms "Are you anorexic?".

I will never understand why it is ok for so many to comment on (and often negatively such as "oh you're just lucky") women with thin bodies than they do larger bodies.

I used to binge eat to try and desperately put weight on for many years and was incredibly unhappy for a very long time (having double AA breasts is no fun either, when you are resorted to wearing teenage bras or even struggle with breastfeeding). At nearly 40 and post children, I am finally up to 9 stone (at 5 foot 9) but still get derogatory comments.

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