Freemasons feel discriminated against

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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42986319

Yet they don’t admit women and nobody knows who they are

GrapesAreMyJam

He pays £100-250 per annum but doesn't know what he does? Seems a waste

I was referring to the overtly sexist and racism conversation that was present at my only experience of a masons meeting (this being a ladies night where non masons were present, I doubt things are better in private meetings).

Examples of real conversations that night:

1. Which local schools aren't "overrun" with Asians.
2. If women don't like something then buy them something "shiny" so you can continue to do what you like.
3. Women do not understand politics because their brains "don't work that way".

There was more. I was utterly disgusted.

I'm sure not every mason holds these views, but it was clear that they felt that the masons was a safe place to express them.

oldsu That's lovely to hear.

In short though on mumsnet male groups=bad

Female groups= necessary, to be protected at all costs and only ever accessed by born women.

No double standards here, no siree

The grand high lodge, the brotherhood, the secret handshake perfectly normal, nothing to see here.

So the one and only time you went stompy, they managed to cover all racist sexist bigotry bases? But the women who attend often somehow manage to miss all these conversations. What about all the Asian Freemasons? Did they join in on the racism too? You have attended ONE Freemason event but somehow know all about them.

Go on then silenceisbroken I'll bite, explain why moron is offending you.

@GunnyHighway

"Moron is a term once used in psychology and psychiatry to denote mild intellectual disability.[1] The term was closely tied with the American eugenics movement.[2] Once the term became popularized, it fell out of use by the psychological community, as it was used more commonly as an insult than as a psychological term." - Wikipedia

'Moron' is offensive for the same reason that 'spastic' is offensive - it is a disablist insult.

It’s got no place in a modern, corruption-free society surely?

Which society is that then?? Not aware of one that exists just now...

Moron

NOUN
informal
A stupid person. - ‘we can't let these thoughtless morons get away with mindless vandalism every weekend’

Origin
Early 20th century (as a medical term denoting an adult with a mental age of about 8–12): from Greek mōron, neuter of mōros ‘foolish’.

That's why it's in common & acceptable use nowadays.... Language evolves.

@UnimaginativeNameChange1

How about idiot? Can we call people idiots? I can't believe that telling a racist that they were a moron got my post deleted. Disablist? Get a grip!

@spatchcock

Why can't people think of men or boys? The ones who are performing significantly worse in schools, getting lower grades than women at university and far less likely to get a graduate job when they leave. What's the problem?

No one is asking you to care or support or help or be a pleasant person but why pour scorn on anyone who wants to help any group or individual.

DH (medical professional, not a Mason) volunteers with a charity supporting drug addicts as they detox and try to beat their addiction. They're mostly white men that he helps. The really privileged ones. Is that okay? You certainly seem to have it in for half the world's population.

What happened to make you such a bitter person.

@UnimaginativeNameChange1

'Stupid' is disablist too ( - why isn't that recognised as a real word by my spellchecker).

"mentally slow, lacking ordinary activity of mind"

@translationAndRotation

If you avoid ad hominem attacks you won't need to use any of those words :)

I'm delighted that you understand a little logical fallacy but ad hominem is not applicable here.

I didn't just needlessly insult the person with the opposing argument. I explained why they were moronic. Ad hominem is when you ignore the argument and only go for the person.

I said that they were moronic because of their sexism and racism and the fact that 200,000 killed by the NAZIs suggested that they weren't "poppets" or "white men" who didn't deserve any support and that deriding them and mocking them was uncalled for and bigoted.

Does that help?

Disablist? Get a grip!

If you find the Talk Guidelines on MN too restrictive, you might be better off in a different forum. 4chan, or www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/ might suit you.

Why so aggressive?

Do you really think 'idiot' or 'stupid' are disablist and the same as 'spas*c'?

I find the guidelines confusing sometimes.

You gave a great example of ad hominem though. Well done you! You're getting it.

Do you really think 'idiot' or 'stupid' are disablist and the same as 'spas*c'?

Not at all - but neither is "moron" or "moronic"....

But some people like to look for offence!

Yes @PifleandWiffle

Some of us get deleted for disablism and some use the same word in a thread title and it gets to 900+ replies.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3061258-FMOTUS-F-ing-Moron-of-the-United-States-Trump-thread-continued

Some of us get deleted for disablism and some use the same word in a thread title and it gets to 900+ replies.

I feel your pain, it's happened to me too with regards to the words "fuck off".

They get used all over these bloody pages & then my post gets deleted as "that phrase breaches the talk guidelines" - I can just about stand the ridiculous level of censorship on these forums, but the inconsistency drives me mad....

Flip another freemasonry thread?! Below is the summary from a home affairs select committee report that I think is Fair. Discriminated against? No. Are people suspicious of them? Yes. No one knows how many members are non white because they don’t keep data (apparently) but I hazard a guess the majority are still white and male.

We repeat the point made in the previous Report: there is a great deal of unjustified paranoia about freemasonry, but freemasons, with their obsessive secrecy, are partly to blame for this. We particularly regret that it was only possible for this Committee to obtain the co-operation of Grand Lodge by compulsion. We did not do so lightly, but only after being faced with months of prevarication and obfuscation since the original requests for information by this Committee were made in the summer of 1997. As already indicated (see paragraph 13 above), a compromise involving confidentiality for the names supplied was offered and rejected. Only then did we issue an Order.

33. We are aware that many masons regret the tenacity with which their organisation clings to secrecy. More openness on the part of freemasons would not only serve the public interest, but also help to undermine the paranoia and possibly draw more attention to the non-controversial and charitable activities undertaken by freemasons.

34. We are also aware that there is a widespread belief that improper masonic influence does play a part in public life. Most of these allegations are impossible to prove. Where they can be carefully examined, they usually prove unfounded. It is clear, however, from some of the examples cited in this Report, and the previous Report, that there are cases where allegations of improper masonic influence may well be justified.

35. The solution is a simple one. It requires no bans or proscriptions, which generally have no place in a democratic society. It merely requires public servants who are members of a secret society—or "a society with secrets" as freemasons used to say—to disclose their membership. We reject the suggestion that this is an unwarranted intrusion on privacy. It is not enough for public servants to behave with integrity. They must been seen to be doing so. There is no new principle being enunciated here. Members of Parliament and of local authorities are already required to declare interests which might compromise their duties as servants of the public. All we are suggesting is a modest extension of this process.

36. We welcome the steps which the Home Office and the Lord Chancellor's Department have so far taken to require the police, members of the judiciary and others within their remit to disclose membership of freemasonry. However, progress has been slow, particularly in respect of the police, and we call for the process to be significantly speeded up, with a clear timetable set.

37. Finally we look forward to the extension of such disclosure into other areas of public life such as local authorities and Parliament.

@translationandrotation

"What happened to make you such a bitter person."

Lol, love how you got that from my post! Well, your hilarious foaming over a group of discriminated masons has temporarily alleviated my crushingly bitter existence today, so thanks!

Whoops wrong poster I see. I guess my own bitter existence is affecting my reading comprehension.

I think they're completely dodgy, I don't trust them one bit. If there is nothing to hide then why the secrecy?

Also, they seem a bit outdated and immature.

If they feel discriminated then they could just stop being Freemasons.

Oldsu that is such a nice thing to hear.

The last three new members at the lodge I know about were British Asians.

The 'secrecy' is quite easy to find out about ( google etc) and more like traditions than secrets.

You do not get off speeding fines if you are a Freemason

HTH

They're not discriminated against for god sake! Of course some people will be suspicious of secret organisations, that's not discrimination.

The Church of England has reiterated “significant concerns” about Christians becoming Freemasons amid renewed controversy about the presence of the secretive organisation at the heart of the British establishment. Christopher Cocksworth, the bishop of Coventry, flagged up a 1987 report issued by the church that highlighted a “number of very fundamental reasons to question the compatibility of Freemasonry and Christianity”
reported in The Guardian