Freemasons feel discriminated against

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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42986319

Yet they don’t admit women and nobody knows who they are

I don't know much about them, but aren't they similar to the umpteen 'networking groups' that are available? Only more established.

People who judge problems based on the sex and race of those involved are moronic.

Do you think the poster was acceptable?

I'll ask again.

How about a situation where someone said "XX club feels discriminated against" and the reply was, "I don't care. It's only black women". Would you be calling out that poster or the one who called them ignorant a moron?

I don't think the two compare because Masons are traditionally a group of white men, and haven't experienced discrimination in any meaningful way.

But I can't take you seriously anyway, using the word "moron" to describe others.

Not really ignorant. I work in an industry which has a fair proportion of freemasons.
I have some idea of what they are about.

" I can't take you seriously anyway"

Why reply then?

I suggest that your refusal to acknowledge the comparison and suggestion that some discrimination is meaningful and some isn't simply shows your own prejudice.

If I retract moron and replace it with ignorant, sexist, racist bigot then would you be happier?

Would you answer three genuine questions, since we're both here?

1. Is it okay to not care about a group because of their sex or race?

1. Should we sideline a group because they "traditionally" didn't experience discrimination? You often hear the argument 'if men want x, y, z, then they should do it, not expect women to do it for them.' Here they have done it and when they have tried to explain or argue against what they feel are common misconceptions they are belittled and mocked.

1. Is it okay to have male-only groups when there are female only groups?

Around 200,000 masons were murdered in Nazi Germany as Hitler decided they, alongside the Jews, had orchestrated the war. And they most certainly aren’t just “white men”

The Freeman’s are the largest donaters to charity, after the National Lottery. Each member is encouraged to contribute to good causes. The Freemasons are open to anyone from any social background, religion, colour. What they do isn’t really top secret, a tv documentary was on sky last year.
There are Female lodges too.

I didn't know that. That's horrific needtogiveitablow.

Poor poppets, eh @FunnyBird

Still stand by your comment or feeling racist and sexist yet?

Go on then silenceisbroken I'll bite, explain why moron is offending you.

My DH is one of the knee flashing variety. He was a bit “ meh” about the advert. He never uses the masons as a nepotism thing, don’t think any of that goes on at his lodge. He goes cos he likes the brotherhood of it. Really nice set of blokes and they make a sh£t load for charity. And I get the tv all to myself when when he goes to meetings...it’s a win win situation in my house. And if and when he dies, my daughter and I will have a whole team of nice fellas looking out for us for life.

I don't mind male only groups in all circumstances.
The masons exist and one of their objectives is to look after each other. This manifests itself as promotions, contracts etc being awarded when there may be other more suitable candidates. Turning a blind eye to inappropriate behaviour is also the sort of thing that is thought to happen.
And they often are defended ok the basis that they raise a lot for charity, but those charities tend to benefit masons or their families, e.g. Masonic care homes/retirement homes.
So, they exist to promote a group which already has a lot of advantages in our society - men.
And they are complaining of discrimination against them selves. Which, if it exists, may simply be a correction to a more level playing field.
It made me laugh, when I read the article that they had taken this advert out.
I'm not stopping them have their club. But I think they are lacking a little self awareness.

That isn't even close to what you said though, is it?

You said "poor poppets" because they are men and they're white. They aren't all white but obviously you shouldn't let facts get in the way of your bigotry. The horrifying statistic about 200,000 would make most people reel in horror. Maybe apologise for their bigotry in the face of such a shocking truth!

You suggest that a group looking after each other is a bad thing. Weird!

"thought to happen". Does that mean baseless and unsupported accusation? Speaking of which, I can find any evidence of the charities tending to benefit Masons and their families. Where's the source?

Maybe if they were helping boys and young men get the most from their education and get jobs commensurate with their qualifications then you wouldn't mind. That group doesn't have advantages in our society. Is that men helping themselves in an area they're the underdogs? It's often suggested that they should and they shouldn't depend on women to sort it out for them!

The atrocities in Germany actually lead to members being more secretive, before this it wasn’t a huge deal but obviously being hunted out, having your lodges and homes burned to the ground and you and your family thrown in concentration camps and then most likely killed tends to make people err on the side of caution and stay quiet. But let’s not let that get in the way of faux indignation that someone’s FIL’s brother (who was definitely a real person) once got let off a parking ticket because he had a dodgy handshake

There are Freemasons where I work, nice guys. Definitely not all powerful and though one of them has a management position, the other two get no special treatment. I really don’t see the problem with men having their own “gang”. Are men not allowed anything these days?

What a fuss. Do the Women's Institute admit men? If not, let's make a big fuss over how sexist that is.

The Freemasons undoubtedly do a lot for charity but they also look after themselves - it’s the purpose of the organisation. An immediate relative of DH is a long-standing member and I’ve heard of them letting each other off speeding tickets and more. It’s got no place in a modern, corruption-free society surely?

And a large part of the charitable donations are definitely reserved for Masons’ families.

I often read on MN people strenuously defending women only groups, places, spaces because they are necessary. And I agree.
But when men have a men only space, well how dare they? They are discriminatory and sexist.

"definitely", "heard of", "thought to happen".

Hardly convincing arguments.

And a large part of the charitable donations are definitely reserved for Masons’ families.

Any evidence for that statement?

Even if it is true as a soldier most of my charitable donations go to soldiers charities, is that ok with you? Or would you like to post a list of charities that you feel are worthwhile.

Actually the masons p pick a charity to support and in our area have raised vast amounts of money for children's charities and the air ambulance.

my dh is a mason and most of the blokes I know who are masons are all down to earth nice fellas who enjoy the chance to have a meal together once a month, whilst doing their bit to raise money for charity. It is strictly against their rules to use the masons for gain, be it personal or financial. My dh is ex forces and the feeling of camaraderie he gets from masons replaced that which he had in the forces, which benefits his mental health.

As with any organisation, there will always be people who are dicks, but they would have been a dick, whether or not they were a mason.

I would much rather my dh spent 1 night a month at masons, then down the pub getting drunk with his mates, but then we are all different and what suits one doesn't suit everyone.

I've attended a Jason's lodge for ladies night to support a friend. Do was strongly approached to join. He didn't, and I will never go back, because of the overt and casual sexism and racism that was clearly evident.

I have no time for suggestions that the masons are discriminated against, when they are clearly privileged.

The fact that they raise money for charity doesn't make the rest of what they do acceptable.

Loving the angry and indignant Freemason defenders!

Won't somebody please think of the men?! (Yes yes I know women are allowed before I'm called ignorant or asked to compare Freemasons to people of colour)

Just before Christmas me and DH were on a train form Portsmouth to London, there were a group of white middle aged men, all wearing suits with a slight pin stripe, some had large flat cases. Being a nosy mare I asked who they were and where they were going turns out they were masons on their way to a meeting in London, we shared a carriage with some of them. During the journey they asked both of us what we did, DH works for a homeless charity and was taking about a shelter that had just opened its doors to rough sleepers the two on our table asked a few more questions.

2 days later a van pulled up outside the shelter, it was a delivery of amongst other thing about 20 NEW parka like coats in all sizes, woollen gloves, hats, blankets, plus an envelope addressed to DH with a large cheque and a note.

DH was overwhelmed, we have been married for 46 years and it was only the second time I had seen him cry.