To think to say wearing the hijab brings you 'respect' and 'security'.

[Eltonjohnssyrup]

Just to start off - this is not a 'ban the burka' thread. I respect the right of all women to wear exactly what they want be that a burka, a bivouac, a hijab, short shorts or a bikini.

It was World Hijab Day yesterday. An event which was promoted by government agencies including the Home Office.

The organisation promoting this event has claimed that the hijab brings you 'liberation'. I'm fine with that. I can see how it would feel liberating not to have to worry about bad hair days or styling every day. And feeling liberated is a personal thing. One woman might feel liberated wearing a full length skirt and long sleeves, one might feel liberated in a bodycon dress and bikini.

But then they went on to say that the hijab brings you 'respect and security'. I feel really uncomfortable about this. It implies that there is a type of respect which women who do not wear the hijab are unworthy of. That showing our hair makes us unworthy of automatic respect.

And 'security', security from what? Harassment? Rape? Terror attacks? This sort of language is moving the responsibility for women's security onto women by saying 'wear this and you'll be secure'. In other words, don't wear it and you're taking risks, asking for it, sending out a signal it is okay to grope or harrass you.

This makes me really uncomfortable, especially in the era of me too. AIBU to think that this campaign should be moderating it's language to avoid tarring those who don't wear it with negative associations? And that the government and Home Office shouldn't be endorsing an organisation that uses it? It's not sending a message of 'women are free to wear what they like' and instead is sending a message that if women want to safe and respected they must cover up.

Clueless liberals are the useful idiots.

hmmwhatatodo totally agree ~ it really is something carried on in communities where there is social deprivation and lack of formal educational. My Muslim friends (and former neighbours) view such areas as ‘alien’ to them.

It is very like when the Irish first immigrated to the UK and stayed in segregated ‘Irish’ areas, sent their children to separate schools and had services in a foreign (Latin) language, and as such drew suspicion upon themselves and their religion. Only the passage of time and greater social integration moved the ‘suspicion’ onto the next migrant group and their children!

I do think however constantly referring to ‘The Muslim Community’ and ‘Muslim Community Leaders’ as is often done by Muslims in such areas as well as by the police and the government is not helping us all think as ONE community with common goals and one set of laws we are all accountable to.

No it is not all uneducated poor people. Many young women wearing Hijab had mothers who did not.
Twenty, thirty years ago if you saw a woman wearing Hijab where I live, they were almost always recent rural migrants from Kashmir, That is no longer the case.
Islam has different branches, like any other religion. The more conservative branches of Islam have been pushing their brand of Islam supported by successive British Governments.

Crunchy you have misunderstood, no one is saying it’s only poor uneducated females who wear hijab! That was a discussion about what goes on in areas such as savile park in Dewsbury. Hijab is worn from all sort from millionaires to ladies in the street selling plastic bags. PhD students to illiterate people.

crunchymint ~ agree, not all uneducated.
However, there was, in areas I was familiar with, a prevalence to wear it in the Bengali and Bangladeshi Muslims. Yes ~ there is a conservative group pushing the agenda and some British born young women adopting it (I suspect for reasons that has nothing to do with religion, more to do with politics)

PS Savile Town in Dewsbury (I think you mean ~ Savile Park is in Halifax. Made the same slip myself)

Tapandgo That makes sense. There is a very small Bangladeshi community where I live, but they do seem to be pretty conservative.

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwi2kp32zZ7ZAhWCKsAKHelDAj0QFggYMAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Flaw%2F2013%2Faug%2F23%2Fjudge-refuses-muslim-to-wear-burqa-court&usg=AOvVaw2dWxf0wblooQrgmEEgTzVr

Not sure if this link will work. But this is a 21 year old wanting to wear the burka in a British Court while on trial.

Again tap I’ll say that she probably wanted to wear niqab. The reporter is choosing to use the word burka. A burka is a long one price item with mesh in front of the eyes. It can’t be lifted up and down and removed as easily as a niqab. I have searched for the availability to buy a burka online here and I can’t find any. All burka sales are just niqab and abayas or the chador. I still believe that no one in the uk wears a burka. I have never seen any for sale in shops.

Interesting to see that LineofDuty was sneered at for mentioning the threat of a "racial discrimination" mark for any child pulled out of a multicultural education trip ... I believe it was implied that it was just another Daily Mail falsehood

Even more interesting to see that, when she produced the actual letter, a PP said - twice - that it should be deleted

As attempts to close the debate down go, it doesn't come much clearer than that

I have seen women wearing the burka. But it is extremely rare. But keep telling me I am a liar.

Perhaps I can help, hmmwhattodo

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BSFYEC6/ref=twister_B00BSFYECG?psc=1&_encoding=UTF8&tag=mumsnetforum-21

And burkas are positively medieval.

I stand corrected- I have managed to find precisely one seller in the whole of the uk who has some for sale. Still can’t find any photos online of people actually wearing them here though!

Well very rarely they do.

Actually I just found an article online of someone who wore one here - a journalist trying to go undercover (haha) to see what it was like. I imagine she probably got a few random stares from Muslims too. Maybe it’s just undercover reporters and fancy dress party goers who are wearing them.

I know Hijab is not just about wearing a head covering, but thought this might help.

It is certain Afghan populations who wear the burka traditionally. So it depends if you live where a lot of Afghan people live.
But frankly this is a bit of a distraction. The burka is worn rarely in the UK. Hijab is fairly common.

The Muslim Brotherhood who promote Hijab, has a stated goal to instill the Quran and the Sunnah as the "sole reference point for ... ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community ... and state". And was financed by Saudi Arabia for many years.

More moderate Muslims have been trying to resist this increasingly conservative version of Islam which is much more oppressive of women. And naive liberals thinking they are being anti racist, support them in doing so.

And those who oppose this conservative version of Islam openly say that the left and the feminist movement have let them down.

crunchy that’s it, exactly. This support of utterly nonsensical requirement to cover one’s head is entirely unnecessary and not followed in liberal Muslim countries.

Countries which force covering have an appalling record in terms of women’s rights.

Why the fuck is there to celebrate?

Absolutely nothing to celebrate. If this was an anti racist initiative ie. racist bigots don't treat a woman badly because she is wearing a Hijab, then fine. But it is not about that at all.

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And Hijab actually refers to the principle of modesty in behavior and dress. So it is not just the head covering, that is part of it, but also about being modest. This is because the sense of the families honour lies with the woman. It is up to her not to bring shame or dishonour on her and the family.

Which liberals are supporting the Brotherhood? Are they big in the UK? To my knowledge they only really operate in Egypt though I am certainly no expert.