To think to say wearing the hijab brings you 'respect' and 'security'.

[Eltonjohnssyrup]

Just to start off - this is not a 'ban the burka' thread. I respect the right of all women to wear exactly what they want be that a burka, a bivouac, a hijab, short shorts or a bikini.

It was World Hijab Day yesterday. An event which was promoted by government agencies including the Home Office.

The organisation promoting this event has claimed that the hijab brings you 'liberation'. I'm fine with that. I can see how it would feel liberating not to have to worry about bad hair days or styling every day. And feeling liberated is a personal thing. One woman might feel liberated wearing a full length skirt and long sleeves, one might feel liberated in a bodycon dress and bikini.

But then they went on to say that the hijab brings you 'respect and security'. I feel really uncomfortable about this. It implies that there is a type of respect which women who do not wear the hijab are unworthy of. That showing our hair makes us unworthy of automatic respect.

And 'security', security from what? Harassment? Rape? Terror attacks? This sort of language is moving the responsibility for women's security onto women by saying 'wear this and you'll be secure'. In other words, don't wear it and you're taking risks, asking for it, sending out a signal it is okay to grope or harrass you.

This makes me really uncomfortable, especially in the era of me too. AIBU to think that this campaign should be moderating it's language to avoid tarring those who don't wear it with negative associations? And that the government and Home Office shouldn't be endorsing an organisation that uses it? It's not sending a message of 'women are free to wear what they like' and instead is sending a message that if women want to safe and respected they must cover up.

certain cultures

Exactly. You've said it for yourself. I'm well aware that head covering is cultural. I'm saying the issue, expectation, choice, however you want to define it, of women covering is different from place to place because it is cultural as opposed to just being simply religious.
The majority of these posts are about a blanket view of what it means to be a Muslim woman which is why so many posters are having a hard time getting their heads around the fact that for many women, it is a choice.

I don’t give a toss if it’s cultural or religious or due to the requirement of government! That’s exactly the point!

The very notion that a covered women is more worthy (and indeed less likely to be attached) is utterly revolting.

This is why teenagers in Rochdale were fair game. And this is why women in Iran are protesting!

So do we dismiss the fact that many intelligent women with complete agency over their own lives decide to make a choice? Is their experience of being a woman simply not relevant because of how other women are treated? I don't accept that, it is disrespectful to a huge amount of women.
If Iran is the only linchpin to this argument then its a pretty weak one because that experience is not representative of all Muslim women. That is a fact.

Again, so what? My protest is against world bloody hijab day celebrating the notion that the hijab makes these women “respected” and “secure”.

If you choose to wear a headscarf that’s up to you. Don’t expect me to celebrate it and UK government endorsed celebration?

This was world hijab day when respect and security are two words that cannot be used on a world platform without ignoring countries liike Iran and others. Yazidi women have had no respect or security no matter what item of clothing they wore. They had to have scarfs removed to stop them committing suicide. Any women can wear any type of head covering they want but to ignore the plight of others on a world celebration leaves a bad taste.It would be similar to a world Pride day and claiming being gay equals freedom and liberation. Using the word “some” as a disclaimer does nothing for the others who are not respected or secure it is a reminder they are nothing nor even worthy of mentioning.

I have a jumper i feel more secure in. Maybe that's the same thing?

But I agree op

Nobody expected you to so I don't get the hysteria.

I fail to believe that every post here is about the wording. It's about the very notion that the UK would dare to consider celebrating something that is still considered "other". Whether people celebrate it or not literally makes zero difference to whether to world keeps turning. It isn't an infringement on the rights of non-muslim women, it is about the inclusion of muslim women. The fact that the very mention of it brings out so much arrogance and prejudice in people is where the problem lies.
The fact is, Muslims exist in the UK. Muslims are born raised, work, pay tax, etc etc in the UK. So when you say "UK government endorsed" at what point us the UK government no longer supposed to include those people? It doesn't make any sense.

It has indeed become an islamaphobic platform

And it saddens me how people will try and use feminist credentials to disguise it

Some in all fairness don’t even try ! ‘In my country you do this’ bla bla bla

A misguided effort to combat Islamaphobia results in this !

*And it saddens me how people will try and use feminist credentials to disguise it

Some in all fairness don’t even try ! ‘In my country you do this’ bla bla bla

A misguided effort to combat Islamaphobia results in this !*

Exactly my point. I agree that it's misguided but it doesn't make some of the commentary here acceptable. The struggles that Muslim women in Iran face do not mean that the struggles that Muslim women face in other areas of the world are invalid.

Not rtft, but the flip side of this is that if you don't wear the hijab, as a woman, then you are not entitled to respect and security - hence Rotherham, Rochdale, etc as pp said. In fact, all women and especially children should be able to feel respected and secure, in any culture because that is what society is about - we have a set of rules to enable us to live together safely, rather than acting on aggressive instincts when we feel like it!

I’m shocked the home office has said this

Also I hate it when people talk about marriage and say stuff like, when’s he gonna make a honest woman out of you

And it’s always directed at the women

hmmwhatatodo
Happy to explain.
Shroud: thing that envelops or obscures something.
synonyms: covering, cover, pall, cloak, mask, mantle, blanket, sheet, layer, overlay, envelope, cloud, veil, screen, curtain

The Muslim women I worked with and have lived near wore headscarf’s in multi colours. The many Muslim women who live(d) in areas like Dewsbury and Blackburn particularly in what have become knows as ‘Muslim areas’ invariably wore/wear black. It seemed, according to the Muslim women I knew then that ‘black’ was considered modest. There was an excellent documentary on the ‘segregation’ of areas like Saville Park ~ and attempts at bringing young people together through the divides created by the older generations.

Where I live now and where I was brought up has none of this, so it would be easy to grow up ignorant of it all. However, it can be a very different experience depending where you live in the UK, and my experience of certain parts of the north of England was enlightening.

What is islamaphobia?

Is it a shutting down of the debate that some of us are extremely concerned at the route Britain is taking here? That my daughters need to coexist with people who feel she isn’t to be respected (nor indeed feel safe) in a country where her head is uncovered? Because that is exactly where this is going.

And it is exactly the same route that lead to the covering up of systematic abuse of young white women in Rotherham.

I am “phobic” of this becoming the norm
in the UK, yes.

I’m shocked the home office has said this

Well then you will be pleased to know that they didn't. The OP has misrepresented via a selective quote (don't know if its their selection or one supplied from another partisan source) which makes it look like that was what the home office said.

The result is a predictable DM comments thread where people repeat and reinforce the original misrepresentation and the same tired old racist tropes.

For those of you so full of astonishment that girls sometimes where colourful hijabs now where they didn't 30 yrs ago - its called fashion. My friends didn't wear hijabs, their daughters often do. They granddaughters probably won't.

I think it raises some questions about how accepted they felt in the host culture that this particular style has become fashionable. Then I look at some of the threads here expressing overt and tacit racism and I'm not surprised.

So what happens if your daughter comes home with a Muslim friend one day? You're going to tell her that her friend doesn't respect her? You're going to encourage her to distance herself from someone based on their religion? You're going to tell her that she doesn't need to "coexist" with these people?

Insanity.

All of the Hijab wearing women I know would say that wearing the hijab makes them feel liberated, respected and secure. However they don't mean from assault, or sexual harassment, etc. They mean in the eyes of Allah. For them choosing to wear hijab is a sign of their devotion to Allah, nothing more.

That my daughters need to coexist with people who feel she isn’t to be respected (nor indeed feel safe) in a country where her head is uncovered? Because that is exactly where this is going.

Islamphobia is parroting off this bullshit as fact, whilst full well knowing that it just promotes hate and segregation.

You are a bigot. You can dress it up however you like. It’s nothing to do with ‘shutting down debate’ - it’s calling it as it is.

And you can extrapolate one statement to mean the negative is true.

I feel loved by my partner - It doesn’t therefore mean that I think anyone without a partner should not feel loved.

A Muslim woman with a headscarf feels respected - it doesn’t mean she thinks anyone without a headscarf shouldn’t feel respected.

But you do know - this just want to attempt to justify your ‘phobic’ position.

Can’t*

I agree op your clothes shouldn't be a form of protection or elevated status. While we're at it why don't blokes have to wear one and pray separately

If a woman wants to wear a hijab or niqab, what the fuck is it to do with you. A lot of the replies on this thread are just racist.

Nothing at all wrong with if you're wanting to wear one. Each to their own and of course you should be allowed.
If it's a case of being forced to, which in some cases it is, then there's everything wrong with that.

I thought blokes did pray separately Mulch

This thread is bonkers. We used to go out in Cairo in the 1970s and covering up was something pathetic peasant women with no education did. Now it’s a thing in the UK ??

Who gets to tell us what to wear ? Nobody would wear this stuff out of choice.

Whilst wearing a head scarf is considered to be liberating and getting respect I think a lot of people just feel pity.

Hot summers day and there are women and girls in long sleeves and extra layers.

I live in a conservative Islamic country. I work with women from all walks of life. Some of the Muslim women wear hijab, some of the women do not, yet they all seem to be able to coexist together without being scornful of each others choices

So can some women choose not to wear any head covering at all? Or are they indeed forced to wear some form when out and about?
Genuinely interested.