Neglect - confused

[IShouldGoToBed]

This is not so much an AIBU, more a WWYD, or even just a mmmmm.. what should I do?

I have a good ish friend. She has DCs around age 6 and 3. Lives in London.

This friend is quite rich - house worth nearly a million, they have a live in au pair, and my friend and her DH have good jobs.

However, little ones just seem so neglected. Both parents are always working (both more than full time with commutes), out with friends, at clubs. Friend often goes away on business for a week here and there. DCs r always picked up from school by au pair. Au pair is changed every 3 months. Friend hardly sees DCs, and on weekends dumps them with friends. Friend has been known to leave oldest DC in house on own for 30 mins here and there too (when au pair not in).

Friends House is a dump - never hoovered, stinks of cat poo, stuff everywhere. they have an au pair and could afford a cleaner if they r too busy.

My DS had play date today and I saw friends DCs bedrooms for the first time -- made me really sad. Bare walls, no toys (although there r toys in lounge so they do have toys), dirty old sheets on bed, no kiddy curtains - just old cream drapes, no books - just a big, empty room with two tiny beds and an old chest of draws. I felt so sad. My DCs have colourful walls, freshly (ish!!) washed bedding, teddies, toys, photos, books, bits and bobs they love on their desks, book cases, nice curtains. Their rooms are cosy and clean nice places to b.

Friends DCs r lovely but v quiet and they always look in need of a bath and fresh clothes.

Don't really know what I am asking. Just find it all confusing and sad. Any thoughts? Am I just being judgemental and this is all normal?

I think OP’s had a hard time here. What she described is rich people’s neglect. The kids have the basic material possessions but not much consistent loving care with disinterested parents and constantly changing au pairs. It’s very sad but social services won’t be interested ;except in the part where the eldest is left alone. Poor kids!

You can anonymously refer to social services if you wish. As a teacher I’d have referred for a few of the things you’ve highlighted - particularly being left alone at home and appearing grubby. Money means nothing, neglect has no barriers. Refer it and let them look into it.

Toys in the bedroom might be a real barrier to getting young kids to sleep. And no problem if toys in main living area - better to let them play in main family area than shutting DC away in rooms to play

Busy with work means they have no choice - lose job and be unable to provide for children, or get childcare.
You are privileged if you don't have to be split between work and childcare demands on your time but this is absolutely not neglect. It's working life. You sound extremely judgemental and on a high horse.

People are missing the point about the curtains etc.
I'm sure OP is not expecting them to have themed curtains - she was describing the overall lacking of the room.
A plain room is perfectly fine but I would always expect to see some element of comfort especially for a child as young as 3. A teddy bear, a night light, a special cushion, a photo frame. It all fits into part of a bigger picture.

Thanks queen dramallama! Better put than me. For those that have asked why the au pair changes every 3 months, I'm afraid I don't know but I wish it wasn't the case. It feels like as soon as the DCs have a chance to bond with someone, they leave. Regarding what the DCs are like - well, very quiet, speech a bit behind, although I think oldest doing fine in school, I have NEVER seen them have a tantrum/cry/ask for anything, they are sweet but a bit 'odd' (sorry can't put finger on it), oldest often asks if he can come back to my house (I know kids do this - but most of my dc's friends ask if they can come back to 'x's' house (x being my DC) or to play with x, or if x can come to play, rather than ask me direct 'can I come to your house'), they have a sad look about them and always just look a bit uncared for.

leghoul - I am absolutely split myself between work and childcare! I know it's tough for us working parents. But when I am not working I want to b with my kids! I shower them with love! My friend on the other hand, is never with her children and when she has opportunity to be, she appears to try to get out of it as far as I can see, leaving them with au pair while she goes to clubs, for walks, out shopping, for nights out, etc... I do understand the pressures, but I don't think friend is under financial or other pressure to work (as myself and lots of my other friends are), it feels much more like she'd far rather be working (or doing some activity) than with her DCs. .she does also openly admit this in a kind of jokey way and I have wondered whether she might suffer depression or some kind of prolonged ptsd, but she's quite a closed book and doesn't really go there.

Sorry, 'PND' not 'ptsd'

leg what a ridiculous post 🙄

Sorry, haven't read everything on the thread but I have to say this:

You felt something was wrong and it made you feel sad. That means a lot and not something we can judge. I think you need to go with your feelings on this because only you saw what you saw. If something felt wrong/sad then maybe something is wrong.

I honestly don't know what you should do, is there a helpline for this at all?

Whenever I have done child protection / safe guarding training I have always told that you must report. Better report a concern and there be nothing to it than not report and it turn out that something is wrong.

I agree that there is a concern here

It's not about the curtains (which is what most posters have focused on)

But an overall sense that the parents are disinterested in their children

Whilst realistically SS may be too busy with worse cases, that is their call to make, not yours. As you have concerns I would raise it and let the professionals decide whether to take it further. A good option would be contacting the safeguarding lead at the school and nursery as they will also have good knowledge of the children

Why do they only have each au pair for 3 months? Families I know with au pairs recruit them for a year. Are the au pairs leaving early as they are unhappy with the family or house? Or are the parents purposefully recruiting short term au pairs, which isn't recognising their DCs' emotional needs for consistent carers?

How do your friends interact with their children? Do they seem interested in what they have to say? Proud of their achievements?

I think OP’s had a hard time here. What she described is rich people’s neglect. The kids have the basic material possessions but not much consistent loving care with disinterested parents and constantly changing au pairs. It’s very sad but social services won’t be interested ;except in the part where the eldest is left alone. Poor kids!

^^this

There are some people who are struggling to juggle children and work, have different standards, ideas of home decor etc blah blah

There are also some parents who simply don't give much of a shit about their children. Don't want to spend time with them, look after them properly or invest the appropriate (and necessary) amount of emotional energy in their children.

OP it sounds like they probably wouldn't make the grade for SS intervention: the benchmark is basically is it good enough parenting? Or are they fed, clothed, taken to school? Yup? Then emotional abuse is not really on SA radar. Unfortunately they have too many cases of sexual/physical abuse and severe neglect to deal with

But I agree with he above poster, I would raise it with the school child protection person

I find it odd that this house is a complete tip with stuff just dumped everywhere and yet their bedroom is just ‘a big empty room.’

When I’ve known Really slobbish people living in untidy hovels it’s been the entire house.

If their house jus so dirty with cat poo everywhere, why are you sending your kids there for a play date?

I suspect you think you know their financial situation but are probably way off the mark. Au pairs can be one of the cheapest forms of childcare. I would assume they are not as well off as you think. Even if that is the case, this doesn't sound like neglect anyway.

Neglect is difficult to prove...

I think OP has a hard time here.

I don't think it's your decision to make. I would be making a call to social services re leaving 6 year old alone in house and general environment.

Social services has a legal obligation to investigate. They won't have to tell your pal that you were the referrer.

The only thing that bothers me is the 6 yr old being left. My son's room has no toys in it. For many months we had to remove his books. He wouldn't get into bed if he had toys. And he went through a phase of throwing his books about. There is pretty much just his furniture as I can't trust him with other things like a bedside table and lamp as you suggest. He doesn't have kiddie curtains-I don't particularly like them. He is certainly not neglected. I would assume most houses in London are worth at least close to a million and upwards of this. Having an au pair is often the most cost effective of childcare options. So just because they have "good jobs" doesn't mean they are wealthy. You don't know their financial situation intimately.

I personally would be speaking to the school or social services. I would be following it up if possible. The odd behaviour of the children coupled with the other signs all put together do point to neglect. The parents are possibly sacking the au pairs after 3 months specifically so the children A don’t form an attachment and B the au pair fails to recognise the full extent of the neglect.

I wouldn’t be able to walk away. My thoughts are, if this is what you are seeing, what are not seeing? This isn’t one parent neglecting their children’s needs, this is two and their parents don’t appear to be treating them like humans in their own right.