AIBU to not know what to think of a relationship like this? is this abnormal or am i being judgy?

[dancingwithroses]

If you had a friend who described the following in her relationship, what would be your response?

Her husband has mood swings- is very kind and loving and affectionate one moment then shouts and swears and screams in her face (and the childrens) the next.

He calls her stupid, cow etc when she makes a mistake or does something wrong eg taking car to the wrong garage, spending too much money on clothes. He also treats the children the same way- screaming at them if they accidentally interrupt a conversation or talk too much (youngest DD struggles with boundaries and does not know whe to be quiet etc so gets shouted at a lot)

This couple have a lot of mutual friends- if he falls out with one of the friends or with her family, he bans her from seeing them and tells her he will leave her if she sees them. He has threatened to take the kids away from her. He has threatened to kill her. in front of the kids. she and the children arfe very frightened of making him angry.

BUT.....here is the thing....when he is not angry he can be lovely and kind. He provides well for her and the two girls with a nice home and holidays abroad and often tells his daughters they are besutiful and pretty. (Only if he annoyed with them he calls them fat or stupid etc) but he does npt do this every day. In facts, months can go on and he behaves just fine. And sometimes he will apologise to her or the kids after his outbursts. So this is not abuse, exactly. I do not think it is normal either though. She seems vey scared of making a mistake but also she ells me she loves him and he gives her a good life. I have known this family quite some time and the kids when they were little seemed quite affectionate with their father but now they seem nervous of him at times? Only when he is in a mood though, the rest of the time they seem like normal kids.

She tells me he often puts her down and the kids too and if she doesn't want to sleep with him because she is tired etc he sometimes gets angry and guilt trips her. When she tell sme this i do not know what to say? I am unmarried myself and have no experience of what i snormal in a marriage or not? maybe marriage counselling would help?

This sounds like a truly horrible situation Dancing, and one that will maybe affect the children and wife for a long time. I don't really like talking about religion,, as its something alien to me, and a troubling subject,, but you did mention about the parents or Father being very religous in your post.

So it reminded me of a man from the past,, not connected to me personally,, but a man I and many others knew, from the place I came from many years ago,. This man, was a local clergyman, he had a wife and two daughters, I knew the daughters, they were so very pretty and lovely. and, the wife was good looking also.. But this god awful man, was horrible and cruel to his family., He would never allow his two daughters to go out, except to some religous type of girls school, they were never allowed to go out locally. never allowed to have friends in their house, and never ever allowed to speak to any boys/lads.. One of the girls, my friend, used to tell me that her idiot saintly Father, used to tell her every night,, that she was ugly, and a devil child, and make her recite some crap mumbo jumbo before bed every night.. And, she once told me that her Father, punched her Mother in the face for speaking to the next door neighbour,
So, come ye Sunday again, and the man from hell. was there at the church, and chatting to all the ladies and children and all.

SO my point is,, that there are some people who have a split personality. sometimes a serious situation,, that can harm people who they are suppose to love.

Oh, it’s abuse no doubt about it. Emotional and mental most definitely but also sexual: She tells me he often puts her down and the kids too and if she doesn't want to sleep with him because she is tired etc he sometimes gets angry and guilt trips her. it’s coercive control.

He’s a monster and couples counselling does not work with those types. And all the nice holidays abroad and occasional compliments don’t make up for the damage he’s done his wife and the even worse damage he’s doing to his children who may well find themselves in exactly the same horrific relationships as adults because they don’t know any better.

It's abusive, controlling behaviour. She needs to get her and her dc away from him

Not normal. Sounds very very much like my stbxh, ground down over many years of this behaviour I left in October and have never wavered in my decision. Mine was 90% good but the 10% was so bad....

Dancingwithroses - unfortunately you're now in the position of knowing what's going and you can either do what you can to help or do nothing and let the children continue to be abused and traumatised.

At the moment no one if speaking yo fit those children. Their dad is abusing them, their mother appears to not realise it's abuse and it seems is not close to leaving.

how about calling social services and explain everything you've said in this thread. It will give the children an avenue to maybe change things and might help their mum to leave. Of course they might all lie through their teeth to protect him but at least out will have been something you could do to try to protect those children.

Because at the moment nobody is.

'Marriage guidance' isn't 'marriage guidance' anymore - it is 'relationship counselling' and yes, an experienced counsellor would work with one of a couple in an abusive relationship (they wouldn't do the more traditional 'couples counselling' model). Relationship counsellors will work towards the best outcome for their clients and often that includes a realisation and confirmation that they are in an abusive relationship and the development of strategies to end the relationship.

Morning, everyone.

We've had a few reports about this thread - and we can see the OP's probably not coming back, so we're going to take it down now.

The OP was here at midnight and now, at 9am, you've decided she's not coming back?
Seems a bit hasty.

I went to marriage counselling with an abusive partner. I went really because I knew I was being abused and I almost needed an authority figure to see it and name it and tell me I didn't keep trying to fix it.

I must have lucked out. They saw us once together, then asked to see us once separately. The next session they very nicely explained to my partner they didn't think they should come again, and they wanted to keep seeing me.

They managed to do it in such a way that they never unprofessional or combative but it was quite clear to all what was being said.
That counsellor helped me so much, I think she knew I was giving out an SOS with the last of my energy and I am forever grateful.

I feel for your friend, OP. As a previous poster said that is abuse, exactly.

Many years ago I met my friend, she was really nice, but very quiet. Her husband used to preach and the men of the church called him "good man" and thought he was great, but he was a perve and over friendly. In that church, the men were always right and the women were supposed to be submissive, which can open the door for abuse. Although he was over friendly to me, I always thought he seemed nice (his public persona seemed good) so I didn't know til they split up that he was violent to her and the kids, plus he cheated on her with prostitutes. She was regularly raped and thrown on the floor during the marriage, threatened, belittled and abused in every way.
When she could take no more and worried because she had seen his violent behaviour echoed by their children, she asked the leaders of the church for help about the abuse. But they refused to believe her, so she got no help. In the end she did get help from her decent friends and WomensAid to leave him, but he lied about her to everyone they had known in their church saying she went off with another man, so even now 20 years later she gets people being horrid. These things can be far reaching and your friend is going to need a lot of support OP.

OwtFerNowt You may be right. I have a theory that the OP is either the "friend" she is talking about or a now grown up DC of the "friend."

Sometimes people who have been through emotional/verbal abuse when it happens only some of the time may doubt themselves as to whether what they or their kids are experiencing IS abuse. The comment with the bum pinching shows the OP is clearly aware that she has experienced sexual assault but may be less clear about emotional abuse. I think a lot of women are.

I know I was clueless and naive about emotional and verbal abuse. My own DF behaved in almost exactly the same way the OP describes. Even down to the religious part of it and views on mental health and SEN etc.I minimised and denied it until I had grown up and moved away and even now I still find it hard to accept.

and safe hugs to Graphista TitaniasCloset Weezol and anyone else on here who has suffered.

I know MN is deleting this thread but I sometimes think MN needs an emotional/verbal/spiritual abuse support thread. Oh and a "We Believe You" campaign regarding all domestic and child abuse.

Thank you

Thank you Amicute

@OwtFerNowt

With this post and all the naïveté, describing awful abuse and clearly distressed children and asking if it’s that bad I’m not entirely sure the OP is playing it straight.

Oh, and the 'I know what abuse feels like, I had my bum pinched by a man when I was just 15' from the OP.

Madey-uppy , and not even that subtle. No biscuit.

Hi, I am back TitaniasCloset BirdsGottaFly Greensleeves Weezol OwtFerNowt Lanaorana2 AmICute and everyone else.

I am the OP. I am sorry if my being away has caused issues for anyone. I wish the OP wasn't true and those things did not happen. But they did- sort of.

I am the "friend's" DC, or I mean I WAS the friends DC. With the mild SEN and cutting and the sex assault bum grope age 15. I am now almost 36 and although I know the bum grope was sex abuse I was unclear about the other stuff. It has been really affecting me badly. I suffer terribly with anxiety and am on medication but have been told I am not stable enough to access trauma therapy- (past history of personality disorder diagnosis and CMHTs do not really like having me around). I do not know why I have such a NEED to have what I went through as a child validated as abuse. I feel very messed up. I am sorry for worrying people on here and for being dishonest.

I am now safe, away from my parents and generally have a nice life aside from the memories, panic and weird intrusive thoughts about the past. I am sorry. I feel like a waste of space.

Deregistering my MN account very soon. I do not think it is good for me to be on here- I have ended up trying to get my needs met but caused upset to others in the process, which is wrong of me. I think best thing I can do is to r-register before I do anymore damage. I am contacting a helpline called NAPAC I found on an internet mental health forum to talk to someone about my experiences.

bye. thanks for being so kind to me anyway, in spite of my being an idiot on here.

And yes, I wish I HAD hidden the cutting and not been so stupid and attention seeking about it all. If it is any comfort to you at all, I do despise myself already.

Before I leave KungPoPanda what is "no biscuit?

Oh, and my parents are still together. The abuse still goes on but not as bad as before. Me and my sister have offered to help my mum leave and suggested marriage counselling though. But to no avail. I am glad we have left that toxic environment though- now the ball is in my parent's court. I have left them to deal with it and have reduced contact with them- it has helped me a lot to feel safer by doing that.

@namechangereturner, don't deregister your account but come over to the Stately Homes thread in Relationships where you will find plenty of us who have been through similar things and can talk together to try to help each other.

My response would be: it sounds like my dad and none of us talk to him now. It is abuse.

No need to deregister if it's helping you, but word your posts more honestly. There's loads of people on here that have been through similar.

I have agoraphobia, anxiety, panic attacks, depression, nightmares and OCD as a result. Therapy and meds have helped but I don't think I'll ever feel "normal".

My parents are still together too. It's so fucked up.

Good luck with getting and benefitting from help.

I’m sorry you feel you have to disappear. Thing with mumsnet is, it’s anonymous - so you can say exactly what you want to and people will respond to your own query. I’m sorry for what you’ve been through, but I think if you were to post honestly about your childhood and ask for help to work it through, you’d have a lot of very experienced posters willing to share their thoughts with you.

To be clear - your father was abusive. And you need to come to terms with that in whichever way you can.

Have a think about posting on the ‘stately homes’ boards - it’s for people who grew up in abusive homes. You may find some help there.

Stay on the boards. It’s a wonderful place, very supportive. Be honest though, MN can see right through any attempts to pose as someone else. All the best x

Having your bum pinched is a million miles from what you’ve described is happening to your friend OP!

Sorry I hadn’t read the whole thread 💐

It's abuse! He's controlling and manipulative and he sounds like an absolute horror to be around. Hopefully your friend will see sense and get herself and dc's out of that toxic environment.

RTFT, tigercub.