To think having kids relieves you of self responsibility

[GlitterUnicornsAndAllThatJazz]

Dont lambast me, I was discussing this with a childfree friend and I'm interested to hear what you think.

Dont you think that to a certain extent having kids gives you a kind of "get out of free" card? The rhythms of your life, your finances, your lifestyle are dictated by the kids to a certain extent. You dont have as much pressure to face as many existential questions because you've already fulfilled qhat we're biologically programmed to do. You don't have the scary directionless of choice, because your life is somewhat funneled by what the kids need.

My friend is childfree and I have yet to decide, but it also seems like if you're childfree you alao have to be "living the dream": you have to be a hardcore career woman or jetting off left right and centre "making the most" of your "freedom". If you're just living a "pedestrian" life on low income, its like you havent met society's ideal of what they would want you to be living as someone without kids.

It just seems like subconsciously (because obviously most parents love their kids and their kids bring them joy) having children is a kind of solution to the meaning of life. Once you've had them, your purpose and meaning is justified and anything else you might do is a nice extra raison d'etre.

Meanwhile without children, you need to answer those questions for yourself: who am I? What do I live for? What meaning does my life have?

What do you think?

I work in a field where everyone is meant to be fulfilled by their work. Up to my due date I worked intense hours and had little time for much other than work. My colleagues definitely think I’m wasting my potential now I spend most of my time looking after a toddler (I freelance from home so still connected) and keep asking me what my plans are ‘when you’re done with this bit’.

Similar to when I was in one of my first jobs as a carer for adults with disabilities, being a mother I can see the effect I’m having in real time. Previously I was slogging away at work, without really changing anyone’s life. So in that sense I do feel a greater sense of purpose, but it has previously come from doing similar ‘frontline’ care work, and I think working with the nuts and bolts of life like that does put things in a different perspective.

I’m in my early 30s and the first of my friends to have children. Most of them aren’t anywhere near wanting to, so I’ve felt the opposite of pressure to conform by having a family. I was never looked down on for not being able to be at whatever social occasion because I had to work, but now the reason is I have to look after a baby people do judge me for that. People are constantly telling me that I’m getting it wrong by not taking enough time for myself, but never told me I was overdoing it at work.

Yanbu

It’s never occurred to me until I read your post but I definitely feel “off the hook” since having kids. The pressure to have a successful career/be outgoing/cultured definitely reduced after my first child, as I was viewed as being too busy caring for my child to climb the career ladder or do exciting “cultured” weekends away etc. After becoming a SAHM on the arrival of my second child there is even less of an expectation for me to be successful outside of the family unit because im “so busy with the kids” . In all honesty I’m not a particularly career driven person but nobody knows because I don’t work! Plus I can stay at home watching tv all weekend and not feel like I’m boring if I admit to it!

When I go back to work once my children start school people won’t expect me to have a high flying career as I’ll have had an extensive career break. I also have the excuse that I’ll need a job that fits around them, which will likely not be a very senior or demanding role.

You can have a career and exciting social life with kids but you definitely find it easier to have a decent excuse not to.

I agree.

Having kids is the "simple" option so that you don't have to think about what you're doing with your life... As You've done it by reproducing another version of you

I know what you mean OP if you aren’t a parent society sort of say ‘ well what are you doing with your life then’
Personally even though I have kids I still feel the need to have something for myself and I feel my kids make it harder . At least without kids you aren’t public property and can just live your life , once kids are in the equation everyone has opinions on whether you work or not or work too much or are selfish . You really can’t win as a woman .

I agree with your OP OP! Although your title is misleading.

Having kids is the "simple" option so that you don't have to think about what you're doing with your life... As You've done it by reproducing another version of you

There is so much wrong with that, where to start. It's not a simple option ,they are not another version of you, you still have to think what you are doing with your life and you haven't acheived anything just by having a kid.

Do people actually think like this? It's bizarre, and rather pathetic.

it also seems like if you're childfree you alao have to be "living the dream": you have to be a hardcore career woman or jetting off left right and centre "making the most" of your "freedom". If you're just living a "pedestrian" life on low income, its like you havent met society's ideal of what they would want you to be living as someone without kids.

I am childfree, and don't feel this at all. I have a modest career and an income which is above the national average but hardly in the 'high-flying' bracket. I holiday in the UK so my dog can come and I don't have lots of nights out etc. because it's just not my scene. I don't care what 'society' thinks, but having said that, I've never formed the impression that anyone feels I should be leading a different lifestyle.

I don't know why people claim "society" expects them to be jetsetting career women or whatever. Nobody expects anything of you. Nobody actually cares about you at all.

I definitely have a greater fear of death now I’m a mother. I have a toddler and one on the way, and the guilt I feel at the thought of leaving my family so young is almost unbearable. I don’t feel at all that reproducing means my work is done, I feel a huge responsibility to see my children into adulthood.

OMG! You've really hit the nail on the head for me.

We have been trying for a baby (multiple miscarriages) for the last 2 years.

I dialled down my career, took a "safe" role swop, better hours, less stress, same pay etc, the job that I was doing was in no way compatible with having a family. It really was a case of career progression or family, and I was happy to choose family. We are in our early thirties, I have dedicated my life since I was 18 to this career, but we are more than aware how fertility can be hugely affected by age. It's now or possibly never.

Now I know we haven't told anyone about the trying to conceive - my choice - I couldn't stand the thought of people trying to figure out if I was pregnant or not from my actions. But I feel that some of my friends (not close friends of course) look at me thinking "what is she doing?" I feel that people think I've taken the easy way out and I just don't want to work any more.

It's not the case at all & if (hopefully) when we have children everything will slot into place but I can't help feeling a bit worthless at times. A bit of a second rate citizen because I gave up my important title and have no progression opportunities currently available to me.

I don't know why people claim "society" expects them to be jetsetting career women or whatever. Nobody expects anything of you. Nobody actually cares about you at all.

Do you seriously think there's no such thing as social pressure, at all? Because that's a... unique view.

@MargaretCavendish
Yep. If nobody cares about anyone and nobody expects anything from anyone, there is no society.

No society - and, indeed, no human culture.

Do you seriously think there's no such thing as social pressure, at all? Because that's a... unique view.

Not at all, there is lots of societal pressure. But not for every child free woman to be Sigourney Weaver in Working Girl.
There is societal pressure to have a job and support yourself, beyond that, no-one gives much of a fuck.

I've loved reading the range of responses on this thread. I met DH when we were really young and we were together 15 years before having kids so did lots of travelling, partying etc. We never discussed kids and I actively didn't want them when I was younger as I had no interest in children and was scared I wouldn't bond. I honestly think the reason we had kids was because absolutely everyone we knew was doing it and I could not see what our life would look like in 10 or 15 years time if we didn't.

For me, having children has provided a "script" for a large chunk of my life. I have my own interests and I love time on my own away from the kids but every decision I and DH have made - where to live, what jobs to do, how many hours to work, what to spend the money on has been dictated largely by the fact of having children.

You have to be more responsible for yourself when you have dcs because they depend on you. I'm much more responsible for my health and finances now I have dcs.

I think some people use kids to answer those questions. Other parents love their kids but answer those questions in different ways. Many parents have go on to do wonderful meaningful things in life apart from having children.

I think if you feel like your life doesn't have purpose or worth, that DOES feel shit. It's one reason why so many people are miserable unemployed, even if they don't actually need the money.

I think kids are absolutely a valid way of giving your life purpose. But i think they're only one way. For other people that's a job, or voluntary work, or caring for a loved one, or a political cause or whatever. I think it's reasonable to ask yourself "What am I doing with my life?" And if you aren't doing anything, I think it's common to feel distressed about that.

I also think what that purpose is really varies. Some people feel really fulfilled and happy in jobs that make bog all. Others see their worth as being tied to moral achievement, or intellectual, or to helping others.

I certainly felt like I had more purpose when I was a student than I did when I was at home on maternity leave, which logically makes no sense at all.

I suspect the reason it looks like you have to have a high powered job or a busy social life if you don't have kids, is because people want you to be happy and fulfilled. If they can see that you are - and it's usually pretty obvious - then it doesn't matter if you're working a minimum wage job with no partner, they'll say "Good on you". But if you're obviously unhappy or frustrated, they'll try and help you find solutions, and those are the obvious ones people go to.

Having a purpose in life all sounds a bit dramatic really doesn't it?

Yes most people do think like that @ShutYoFace

Thankfully I am not one of them

I agree, but not because of social pressure. Before children (up to late thirties), I would get so bored thinking about myself and my feelings, what I wanted, what I 'should' be doing, whether I liked myself, how to be happy, round and round same old feelings and dilemmas. I wanted to direct my emotions to someone else and put them first.

Sorry you’re going through that positivepineapple

Yes most people do think like that @ShutYoFace**

They truly do not. Its part of the human conceit to imagine that anyone cares enough about what you do in the first place, but to imagine anyone thinks we should all be jetsetting high flyers, its completely illogical. It wouldn't even occur to most people.

There is societal pressure to have a job and support yourself, beyond that, no-one gives much of a fuck.

That might be your experience. It isn't mine. I imagine it greatly depends on the people you know, and the kinds of expectations and experiences they have.

If your particular friends and family expect you to be a fortune 100 ceo that may be true, but the contention was that society expects all childfree women to be that, which is obvious nonsense.