To think having kids relieves you of self responsibility

[GlitterUnicornsAndAllThatJazz]

Dont lambast me, I was discussing this with a childfree friend and I'm interested to hear what you think.

Dont you think that to a certain extent having kids gives you a kind of "get out of free" card? The rhythms of your life, your finances, your lifestyle are dictated by the kids to a certain extent. You dont have as much pressure to face as many existential questions because you've already fulfilled qhat we're biologically programmed to do. You don't have the scary directionless of choice, because your life is somewhat funneled by what the kids need.

My friend is childfree and I have yet to decide, but it also seems like if you're childfree you alao have to be "living the dream": you have to be a hardcore career woman or jetting off left right and centre "making the most" of your "freedom". If you're just living a "pedestrian" life on low income, its like you havent met society's ideal of what they would want you to be living as someone without kids.

It just seems like subconsciously (because obviously most parents love their kids and their kids bring them joy) having children is a kind of solution to the meaning of life. Once you've had them, your purpose and meaning is justified and anything else you might do is a nice extra raison d'etre.

Meanwhile without children, you need to answer those questions for yourself: who am I? What do I live for? What meaning does my life have?

What do you think?

Interesting thread!

DC certainly do seem to be a big focus for DH and me and take a lot of time and energy. But neither of us were exactly setting the world on fire before either! We were just working more hours and had more free time and money to do a few more costly things.

Most people, parents or not, don’t achieve “big things” or “find purpose”. We mainly just do ordinary things. Work, domestics, leisure, socialising, family stuff.

There should be no more social pressure on anyone to do anything particular because of being a parent or not.

(But obviously I will also have bookings for 5 star hotels along the way - no youth hostels for us!)

Abracadabraapileofbollocks unfortunately I think you are strictly correct.

But I will ignore that and get on with just living my life, because I suspect I'll enjoy it enough to get over the strictly biological meaninglessness. That's the thing isn't it - doesn't matter if your life doesn't have a meaning. So what.

It is interesting. Like you say. If you have children it’s ok to not be doing much else. If you do then that’s amazing or selfish, depending on who you talk to.
But I do think it’s also a bit of a get out of jail card (for some, I am not making a sweeping generalisation) to say, oh I can’t (insert lots of things) because of little Jonny

This is just my personal experience and I am sure there are lots of people it doesn’t apply to.
It’s a bit like the old “staying together for the children” I think both my parents used that old excuse because they were just too scared to change, and we were just the convienient excuse.

Yes and no.

I feel having a child has made me think much deeper about the person I am. I feel she will look to me for how to live life so I want to be the better version of myself. She also makes me realise time passes quickly that I need to make the most of life. Having her has made me bolder, I think I've got to do XYZ or I never will.

She is time consuming too so I no longer feel bad for watching crappy TV when I could be doing something 'fabulous' as I used to pre-kids. I can justify staying in a job I don't find interesting as the flexibility and mat leave benefits are amazing. I think she has redefined what I feel I 'should' be doing to feel happy. I feel more authentic happiness.

I have never really understood the meaning of life as a grand philosophical problem. I agree that they are something to do with your time and something to spend your money on.

I do think it is good to be challenged in life and without kids, I would have so much slack in terms of time, money, energy etc.

People who choose to be child free seem to have no problem coming up with fulfilling things to do and by having kids, they would have to sacrifice those things. I'm just not interested in anything enough. I would spent my weekends in front of the TV and my money would be saved with nobody to leave it to because I don't want to buy anything.

This is really interesting. One thing I have noticed is that having very small children forces you to live in the moment, because their needs are so constant and immediate. I think that's actually quite healthy and helps with the existential angst. But then when they get a bit bigger it creeps back in again ...

And I find by having kids I really push myself sometimes to do things I wouldn’t normally do. For example I wanted to take my children to Florida so did everything I could to find the money to take them as there was no way I would/could let them down. So yes my life is more re fulfilling by having kids and equally I don’t worry that I haven’t gone on to the next level in my career or am I driving a brand new car.

I know having kids isn’t for everyone but I feel procreation is the reason we are here - to procreate. When I die I will die happily knowing I came here and did what I had to do.

Pompom42 you didn’t have to do it you know. It’s not compulsory.

And there’s a very strong imp,ication in your post that those of us who can’t or haven’t procreated have somehow let the side down, have not done our bit.

jaygee61
Yes! Was just thinking that.
Will not say anymore, as I tend to get told off for being rude

Meanwhile without children, you need to answer those questions for yourself: who am I? What do I live for? What meaning does my life have?

I think there is something very wrong with your thinking if you imagine having children in any way negates those questions. If anything you should be asking them more.

I don't think Richard Dawkins says that the meaning of life is to have children and pass on your genes.

I think he'd be more likely to argue that there is no meaning of life, it's just a thing that has happened.

Totally disagree I’m not here simply to procreate,nor was I an empty husk before kids
It’s hugely insulting to reduce women worth to whether or not they procreated
Women without kids are still able to be happy,fulfilled,interesting people

I suppose it’s kind of true. I don’t care much for myself (as long as I have a good career so that I can provide for my children should anything happen to me and DP) and all my goals are child goals... I want THEM to be happy/healthy/successful af whatever they want to be successful in. Everything I want for myself just revolves around it making me a better mother or role model

BigBaboonBum
And what the he’ll happens when they’ve left Home!
Will you be one of those women people are constantly starting MIL HELL threads about

*hell

Not rtft but this is something that comes up quite a bit on infertility threads. The fact that if you don't have kids there's this odd pressure to be competing in triathlons / writing blockbusters / excelling in your career / having exotic holidays / flaunting a super toned midriff etc because that's what all your mates with children fantasise about doing if they had all the copious free time they imagine their friends without children have.

I did eventually have a healthy baby after many years of infertility and loss (preceded by years of wondering, as you did, OP, whether I wanted dc or not) and I feel under a lot less pressure now to account for myself to others, which is a relief. I also tend to make the most of the time I do have, so in some ways I don't have quite such existential crises of what to spend my energy on, as I have to prioritise on the spot. And I am a lot more efficient about doing the things that mean a lot to me. For me, it has focused the mind.

But I am terrible with unstructured time and work best under pressure, so it suits me to have free time in unpredictable short bursts. And also I think being childfree is quite a different experience from being infertile - had endless fertility issues not taken up all of my time and emotional energy for the greater part of my 30s it might have been a different story.

There is no meaning of life. By some quirk of fate we are born, then we inevitably die, and that's it. I'm under no illusion that my not being born would have any impact on the world whatsoever. Maybe that's why I don't feel the need to procreate!

@Huntinginthedark tbh yeah, probably.

“MIL WONT STOP CRYING AT OUR DOOR TO LET HER IN”
“MIL EATING OWN LIMBS OUT OF BOREDOM AGAIN”

Etc.

I have my career, I have hobbies, not sure what else I could have that others do that would make it better... but I can’t imagine not having my babies. Maybe I’ll start growing bonsai trees or something

Just realised I totally didn't address the aspect of life's big questions / what is my life for / etc. I don't think that has changed for me between having a baby and not having a baby. If anything, having a child has made me more aware of my own mortality and given me a more urgent drive to do and be a person in my own right before my time's up.

BigBaboonBum
Haha
Can’t wait for those threads!!
MIL PASSIVELY AGRESSIVELY CLIPS AWAY AT HER BONSAI EVERYTIME I VISIT

Waves at Chicken & Blue

I'm 43 and childfree. I have never felt pressured to live a 'having it all kind of life'. Having been married for ten years and single for the last seven I really do like living by myself.

I haven't asked myself deep questions for years. This might be because I was given a 5% chance of surviving the next 24hrs when I was 28. I was off my head on morphine but I carried out a pretty thorough mental inventory thinking about did I need to leave letters expressing my love, letters of apology, did I have any regrets and so on. The conclusions I reached then still seem to hold now. I have changed in that I will verbalise love or apology in the moment rather than leaving it till later.

I have friends with kids and am sometimes on standby for school collections and small people illness if they are stuck.

I don't feel inferior or superior to those with children. I respect their choices as they respect mine. I know who I am, what I live for (mostly the cat, lovely food and books), I enjoy kids but I also enjoy closing the door to the world.

I find the whole existentialist thing confusing, overly introspective and a bit odd. But it wouldn't do for us all to be the same, so whatever floats your boat.

Waves at Weezol + cat!

Weezolcat would wave back but she's utterly exhausted having just inspected and eventually approved the entire 41 item online shopping delivery.