To think having kids relieves you of self responsibility

[GlitterUnicornsAndAllThatJazz]

Dont lambast me, I was discussing this with a childfree friend and I'm interested to hear what you think.

Dont you think that to a certain extent having kids gives you a kind of "get out of free" card? The rhythms of your life, your finances, your lifestyle are dictated by the kids to a certain extent. You dont have as much pressure to face as many existential questions because you've already fulfilled qhat we're biologically programmed to do. You don't have the scary directionless of choice, because your life is somewhat funneled by what the kids need.

My friend is childfree and I have yet to decide, but it also seems like if you're childfree you alao have to be "living the dream": you have to be a hardcore career woman or jetting off left right and centre "making the most" of your "freedom". If you're just living a "pedestrian" life on low income, its like you havent met society's ideal of what they would want you to be living as someone without kids.

It just seems like subconsciously (because obviously most parents love their kids and their kids bring them joy) having children is a kind of solution to the meaning of life. Once you've had them, your purpose and meaning is justified and anything else you might do is a nice extra raison d'etre.

Meanwhile without children, you need to answer those questions for yourself: who am I? What do I live for? What meaning does my life have?

What do you think?

Isn't that a little (unwittingly!) disingenuous though? There has to be a difference, otherwise why did you have them? If you really liked kids and thats all there is to it, you could have just chosen a career that involved working with them?

I teach Reception, funnily enough, and love children. But I was never driven to procreate as though it was some kind of solution to what was missing. Never dreamed of having my own family and the white picket fence (despite the fact that it's exactly what I ended up with). For some people I'm sure their children make them feel complete. For me they're simply a lovely addition to an already quite nice life. Life without them would have been lovely, too, just in a different way.

I don't start and end with my DC. I'm selfish and love time away from them as much as I love time with them. I've watched friends sacrifice every part of themselves for their DC because it's simply the only thing they have which defines them and can say with no uncertainty it's not for me.

I disagree. Prior to having children I didn't give a flying fuck what I did or what people thought of me. All of my successes were just a result of me living my life how I wanted as opposed to external pressures. But now, now, everything has to be perfect, or at heart really good for my children, in the past, when things went wrong I would just shrug my shoulders and move on. Now I agonise over every little set back. The guilt is overwhelming.

@LtGreggs
"I've passed on my genes to an heir & a spare, so at one level that's Job Done. But I don't fancy sitting on sofa watching walls saying that's that for the next 50 yrs either!"

Exactly. If your time was up tomorrow (touch wood! Sorry!) you would have a clear vision of what you have left behind, even if you achieved nothing other than your kids. Even if you lived in poverty and sickness you could say: "I brought in life, and I gave my kids the best I could". Without kids, this question becomes more complex.
I cant remember who said it, but someone said that you only truly die when there is nobody left on earth who remembers you. Its why famous people are in some ways immortal, but also why I think many people choose to have kids, albeit subconsciously.

@OutyMcOutface
Interesting. Do you not think this is just an age thing though? Dont know how old you are, but I mean I couldnt give 2 fucks what people thought when I was 22. Nearly a decade later and that has been slightly tempered, although is still there.

the greater society doesn’t expect you to “live your best life” because it’s a commonly held notion that once you’ve got kids you’re already doing that

If throwing wooden toy swords out the front windows at 6am because the DC are leathering one another to the point of brutality, I can do without living my best life. It's bollocks.

I see your point, especially about society's expectations. It's far easier once you have DC because you've simply done what people expect you to do. You've satisfied some kind of normal checklist in their minds so are worthy of their time and attention. Those who buck the trend are asked about in hushed tones "hasn't she met anyone yet...doesn't she want children...she's leaving it a bit late now" as though there's a set of things one must achieve before being considered a 'real' adult. It's shite.

I wish i felt the same as you describe op...it would of saved me years of mental upset...

You may have a point OP but once those kids have grown up, you're again left with the big questions about what you should be doing with your life and how the heck do you do it with reduced energy/enthusiasm/mobility.

And it comes round real quick.

I agree with you OP. That is an argument put forward in that book Childfree and loving it . That having children gives you a purpose in life and a full schedule.

I can't see where I would have time to have and raise children. In fact, I have decided not to have children and instead, capitalise on all the hard work that I, my parents and grandparents put in to getting educated and getting good jobs and simply ENJOY now my life!

I recently read a book called Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming Into Existence. Which basically argues that it is selfish to have children. That parents to it for their own ends.

In fact, I enjoy reading. And arts, walking, church, charity work, travel pets etc etc.

In a weird way, I love my potential children too much to bring them into existence. Instead, I concentrate on my (rescue) cat.

Being childfree is the best kept secret out there!

I see what you mean OP.

When i had DD1 i was shocked at my strength of feeling for her as in love for her - but also how suddenly everything i worried about had now dropped down my 'ladder of worries' one rung. DD was firmly at the top. Strangely that did feel a relief. You wouldn't think so; but it did. A change and a relief.

I’m the opposite @rulescontrolthefun - DS has autism and I am not dying ever I will always be here for him and DD (sticks fingers in ears and sings la la la while people point out eternal life hasn’t been invented yet...)

And I agree that just because I am childfree, that doesn't mean I have to do adventurous stuff or save the world or anything. My leisure time looks more like that of an OAP's. (I'm 35). But it suits me fine. I had my mid-life crisis early and gave up drinking so nightclubs etc definitely no longer my bag.

Once I'm richer though I intend to go on a luxury gap year!

I have seen plenty of people on here saying their life would have no purpose if they didn’t have children. I couldn’t have children but it has never occurred to me to think that my life had to have purpose - I didn’t ask to be born.

It does seem that if you don’t have children you have to justify yourself and your existence in some other way by doing something extraordinary like walking up Kilimanjaro or something. I don’t have a stellar career but I have a perfectly good life.

@Jaygee61
Shit that thought never occured to me: "I didn’t ask to be born". I really like that, it really puts things in perspective when you think about it.

Richard Dawkins wrote about 'The Selfish Gene' & the idea that the meaning of life is just to propose your genes to next generations. Does anyone know what he said about the meaning of life-after-kids? Am I meant to spend next 50 years match-making for them and then for grandchildren?

I agree there's lots of societal expectation, especially on women, that you should busy yourself to 'acheive' something if you are child free.

I bet if I had stayed child free I would have been very successful and classically 'high flying' professionally, partly because I would have stayed pursuing that fairly obvious pathway - because doing something else with my 'complete freedom' was too scary to even really think about.

oh wow, what a weird way to look at life.

I have two DC, and am a person with hopes, dreams, goals that far transcend just being a parent.

My life before children had two extremes, the first was travelling, very exciting and something I still miss, that freedom. The next phase was working but really wanting children but lots of partying. The latter phase was not happy if I'm honest and life felt a bit pointless. Then children came along and all forms of spontaneity and freedom ceased.....I took the responsibility of having children very seriously!@

Chicken Vindaloo I’ll come with you on your luxury gap year

Sadly being single and paying a mortgage on a single wage isn’t exactly a glamorous life. I do enjoy being the one person in control of what I do though (even if my budget doesn’t match my plans).

This thread has come at an interesting time for me. I’m contemplating a move to a different part of the country and wondering why, being single with no kids I haven’t done it yet.

My Having kids has never answered your set questions
who am I? I’m many things inc worker,friend,sister,mother
What do I live for? To experience things,enjoy events,to give and take
What meaning does my life have? It’s multifaceted. It has Lots of meaning

I am not defined by having kids.

@Honeybooboo123
This isnt what the thread is about.

Nobody said parents are "just" parents without hopes or dreams.

We are merely carriers for genes. The responsibility of our lives is pretty much survive to breed then die to not compete for resources.

I found adjusting to being a mother one of the hardest things I ever ad to do. Although our dc were much wanted and are very much loved I found myself questioning who I had become.

I fear dying much more as I would leave them with that grief to bear.

I think hardest of all is the balancing act of how much you 'owe' the kids. I always put them first but then does that mean I'm not entitled to the life I want? At what point do my needs become selfish because I've had kids and therefore everything becomes secondary to what they need and want (I don't think men wrestle with this in the same way fwiw). I have this conversation with women friends so much.

It’s about balance & priorities.
I read on mn, kids would chose to have mum home,not working.really?
I never asked mine.they fit in around me.they attend nursery because it suits us
I don’t let the kids be the main driver in big decisions eg where we live,School,nursery etc
If I asked my kids where shall we live,they’d chose next to supermarket in order to pop out for haribo

Surely it depends on the child? Now I try to answer those questions for myself and in a way that suits a perpetually questioning child

Seriously, I think whether those questions are answered by children depends on your personality type. If anything, I've felt even more urgency to achieve and find the answers to the big questions, since I've had DC. My sense of 'self responsibility' as you call it, has increased because the way I live is an example or blueprint for my DC.

This is a fantastic thread @GlitterUnicornsAndAllThatJazz, I've been trying to put my finger on similar thoughts recently. I have two DC, both wanted (now) but first was unexpected. Therefore we were slightly 'thrown' into parenthood, yanked from our life as a couple with travel, nights out etc. It has taken a monumental psychological shift for us to get used to this new role, but now I genuinely believe it's the meaning of life. Not the only meaning, I am many other things besides a mother, but it's the core, central meaning for me. Our life will be directed to some extent by the kids' milestones and I'm grateful for that sense of direction. Also on a smaller scale, the year is punctuated by the different rituals that children bring and that also helps me feel content and secure.

Of course this is just my experience. We are all different.

Bluetongue - see you at the airport in 2045! I'll be the one with dreadlocks and a guitar (I intend to look the part!)