C4 now - the James Bulger case **Trigger Warning - Contains Info about the case** (Title edited by MNHQ)

[Hairgician]

Sat watching this now.

I do not accept the view that those 2 boys were treated unfairly. They murdered that poor little boy and they knew what they were doing and that it was wrong.

They should be rotting in jail. Aibu to say justice not served??

Venables was back in 2010 working at a pizza restaurant in Cheshire. As someone mentioned. The point is that it was only about 18 miles away from the murder scene in Liverpool.

Don't forget he was going into Liverpool to watch Everton matches.

He was also allegedly out clubbing in Liverpool. This is all documented in Ralph Bulgers book. One of the boys (as reported by one of their social workers) was working as a steward somewhere too. Now that is a job a person would not be allowed to do if they have any child offences due to the DBS checks. Unreal that they were allowed.

He is scum and totally unable to be rehabilitated. He deserves the death penalty. Without a doubt.

The difference between them reaching 25 and 10 is that the 25 year old is deemed to have sufficient adult experience and capability to grasp the significance and consequence of their actions.
At 10 we do not generally believe a 10 year old has this wisdom. We accept they have a grasp of right and wrong, but consequence and sense of significance are severely impaired, even in fairly typical children.
They were conscious of their actions, but at the same time events evolved and the gravity was not fully understood.
A child who damages a coat might believe their entire world is about to come crashing down unless they invent a lie that it was stolen.
All perspective is lost in the minds of some children when they find themselves in certain situations.

It is true that both the 25 year old and 10 year old will have been shaped by life. We just at believe at 25 the inner person is a reflection of themselves but at 10 it's likely more a reflection of their learning.

It's also why most of us parents would say their kids understand the risks of fire, but we would not leave them alone near one. Kids make lousy choices sometimes, and once in a while some make the most horrific ones.

@YetAnotherHelenMumsnet there is another thread on this as well entitled three years four months I think? Where the comments are beyond the pale and realm into far worse than just personal opinion and call for eugenics and lethal injections..... has this been reported at all?

Message from Denise Fergus (bulger)
Facebook page :

Thanks to everyone who has sent lovely kind messages on yet another difficult day, but this is not over, could you please sign an share my petition if you haven't already an help me get the 100,000 signatures that I need, your support has been amazing together we can do this let's show them we won't be beaten

Please all go on her fb page and sign her petition for her baby James.

Don’t worry, all you do-gooders who see Venables as the unfortunate victim of an abused childhood who can be ‘rehabilitated’.

He will no doubt be released yet again one day soon, and free to continue his ‘rehabilitation’.

And when he is free, he will kill again. It’s only a matter of time. His crimes will still be society’s fault, though, won’t they?

This is an interview with Beth Thomas, a child diagnosed with psychopathy following horrific childhood abuse at the hands of her biological Father.
She was adopted by a loving adoptive family, but had thoughts of killing them in their sleep. She explains that she would stab them at night, in the dark, because they wouldn't see her do it. Absolutely disturbing.

She underwent corrective psychotherapy and is now an adult, and a registered nurse.

Sleepingbunnies, even if we had the death penalty it would never apply to an offence such as the one Venables has just been convicted of. And it would be all sorts of wrong to impose it 25 years after the event for an offence committed as a 10 year old.

I think the fire analogy is excellent TheBrilliantMistake

There is no way anyone would leave a ten year old in charge of a fire. Not a chance.

Obviously, I'll say it again, Venables is beyond rehabilitation now he is in his mid thirties. But, in his defence, and all people should have a defence, his actions clearly indicated a disturbed mind, clearly and the licence orders that he was released under has obviously worked.

In other news today, another person was charged with downloading images of child sexual abuse.

DBS checks on their identities will be picked up by a special team who will handle such searches, as will any birth certificate requests etc. Any such requests are red flagged for special procedures...

MissMoney - so what are you suggesting? That we never give them a chance? That we imprison them forever for crimes committed in childhood? That it doesn't matter what progress they seem to make in custody we never try?

That we put someone in prison at 10/12/14/16 and never release them just in case?

Don’t worry, all you do-gooders who see Venables as the unfortunate victim of an abused childhood who can be ‘rehabilitated’. He will no doubt be released yet again one day soon, and free to continue his ‘rehabilitation’.

There is every doubt of that fact. It's incredibly unlikely that he will be released in the near future, given that his life licence has been revoked. And who precisely has suggested that Venables can be or has been rehabilitated? I haven't seen any posts suggesting that to be the case.

Why is doing good a term of abuse in your book?

harvey yes I believe they should never have been freed ever.

If those two ten year olds had murdered so utterly brutally, purely because they had had a bad upbringing, then surely this would happen every week, wouldn't it? Kids from bad backgrounds murdering?

Does it happen?! NO. It hasn't happened since!!! Why? Because those two creatures were freakishly evil, that is why!!!

Nobody had said it is all society's fault. We have said that in the space of 10 years a child became a killer. If you don't think society was a part of the circumstances then why do we bother protecting children at all?
We know children are very much a product of their environment. If they aren't, then why are we as parents not just sitting on our bums and just letting nature make our kids great?

Does it happen?! NO. It hasn't happened since!!! Why? Because those two creatures were freakishly evil, that is why!!! but it does happen that disturbed children commit violent crimes on a regular basis and are tried for those crimes in juvenile court. Except you don’t hear about them because the law states that under sixteens who commit crimes cannot be named.

Thank you Treesinmay Iv just signed the petition.

Sleeping - how sad that you would want to imprison 10 year olds for the rest of their lives.

I can understand 10 year olds lacking understanding, empathy and humanity but struggle to understand an adult full of so much ignorance and hatred. Especially when that is directed to children.

Chaos - agreed. It is not rare that it happens but very, very rare it is publicised. Fortunately.

If those two ten year olds had murdered so utterly brutally, purely because they had had a bad upbringing, then surely this would happen every week, wouldn't it? Kids from bad backgrounds murdering?

No. Some people commit suicide as a result of depression. Not everybody with depression commits suicide.
Some people who drink and drive end up killing. Most don't. That does not mean drinking and driving is not a cause of deaths on the road.

Calling them 'evil' is unhelpful- it's almost like an excuse.
No one is evil. They might be disturbed, psychotic, brain damaged....... there must be a cause and we need to understand that cause.

Granted a life on supervision means you are not totally free. Infact anyone convicted of murder in the UK would go onto a life licence, once released from custody.
But no one realistically can be monitored 24/7 can they?
Venables broke the conditions of his curfew back in 2008, he had entered a Liverpool without permission and took drugs. He revealed his identity to work mates who then took his photo.
Venables must be very stupid to venture into Liverpool, it’s entirely possible he could come into contact with the Bulger extended family. Which is why he had the curfew in the first place.

In what way am I ignorant harvey Because my opinion differs so much from yours? Do you think 8 years was sufficient? Because no I don’t.

One of the most harrowing anecdotes of the interviews with them at the police stations was how one of them starting to swing his legs under the chair, so small was he, and then cried for his mother. The frightened little boy was still in there. The total lack of real comprehension regarding the situation was clear.
Evil my arse. Messed up, absolutely.