C4 now - the James Bulger case **Trigger Warning - Contains Info about the case** (Title edited by MNHQ)

[Hairgician]

Sat watching this now.

I do not accept the view that those 2 boys were treated unfairly. They murdered that poor little boy and they knew what they were doing and that it was wrong.

They should be rotting in jail. Aibu to say justice not served??

@DenPerry so you advocate the death penalty? Who for? All murderers?

Or just 10 year old murderers? Because they are more 'evil' than adult murders yeah?

You don't have to be sympathetic towards RT or JV to want an effective and fair justice system that has the some kind of aim or rehabilitation of criminals for a better society.

JediJim they also poured paint in his mouth and there is evidence he was sexually assaulted. It wasn’t a straight forward murder. It was sadistic

I agree DenPerry, I just cant get passed that little toddler suffering a prolonged and torturous death, being all alone at the mercy of two nasty and dispicable boys. They should have been incarcerated for life, in a secure mental health institution.

Or at least a lot longer than 8 yeas, what a joke.

I totally agree with the analogy that a child who is abusive to animals will most certainly be abusive to others.

I was 10 and in Liverpool when this happened. I was deeply affected by it all, a lot of us kids at the time in that area were and we knew it was wrong and evil. These boys are evil, one of them even now is a convicted peodophile

Can I just ask, how would they have been tried as children? What’s the difference between a child and adult trial?

I know when children are witnesses they don’t have to be in court and can be via video link, or have pre-recorded interviews.

I can't even bring myself to read this full thread let alone watch something on TV about what happened.

All I can think about is what if they did that to my son? If they were capable of doing that when they were 10 I dread to think about what they would be capable of as adults.
I believe they belong in a facility of sorts. For life.

I remember that the dad of one of my DSis's friends was on the jury. The jurors had to have counselling in order to cope with the horror of the details of what those boys did to little James Bulger. The whole thing should have been handled differently.

Reading about it, just seemed very premeditated, like they knew where they wanted him, away from people who might see, and what they wanted to do to him. I read that James had 42 injuries in all, but not one could be the fatal one. Earlier they had tried to abduct another child, but was caught by their mum. They weighted his head with rocks and placed him on a trainline so that his body would be destroyed. I just cannot get past that, and all I feel for these two dispicable and nasty boys is disgust.

I think if it happened now, they would not be in court and would appear via video link. Back then, they did not have the technology to do this.

Meant not one of those 42 injuries could be pinpointed to be the fatal one.

*I hate threads like these because I just can't fathom for a second how anyone can be sympathetic to those boys
*
No one has been remotely "sympathetic".

Mitigating factors do not equal "sympathy".

If you have experience of disturbed children - children who have been neglected, subject to abuse of different kinds, then you can see how they are not in control of their actions, and will do dangerous and alarming things that seem totally irrational. Their brains are not fully developed (no 10-year-old's brain is fully developed) and the brain of an abused child develops differently from the brain of a child from a secure background. What they did was dreadful beyond imagining (and yes, I do know the details and wish I didn't) but these were children, and damaged children. Robert Thomson came from a dreadful background, with Jon Venables it's not so clear cut, but there was clearly something wrong with the child - he was violent at school and his behaviour was causing a lot of concern. Violent, sadistic behaviour from damaged children towards younger, weaker children (or towards animals) is not that unusual, but they are still children. Did I have any sympathy for Brady and Hindley? Not a jot. These boys, yes, I did.

Aeroflotgirl "just seemed very premeditated"

It was.

this thread has alerted me to the Blake Morrison book. I have googled some articles and I'm shocked by all the cartoonish emotional shit I see there, and the assumption that everyone else must view this through a lens of cartoonish emotional shit...

if you just look at the facts of the case, they speak for themselves.

I notice that since I commented, some more people have referenced how "easy" they think it is to use the label "evil". So I will repeat myself. No, I don't find it easy to acknowledge the horrific things some people do, adults or children. I didn't use the word "evil" but it's not an easy way out by any stretch. It doesn't solve anything.

maybe it does if you have religious beliefs, but I have none, so I can't even think "oh well, they will go to hell".

Why do some people think it's "worse" if it was premeditated? It makes no difference.

Tabby, you posted about the justice system but don't seem aware that premeditation is a key part of what charges are brought, and how sentencing is determined. So yes, it does make a difference. The law says so.

I find it baffling that people seem to equate thinking that things should have been done differently or that things shouldn’t have been done in the way that the mob seem to think they should equals having sympathy. Of course it doesn’t.

You can have utter contempt for a crime and for the individuals who commit that crime but still believe that justice should be served in a certain way or indeed shouldn’t be served in a certain way. The two are not mutually exclusive.

E.g. most people on here wouldn’t campaign for the return of the death penalty for various reasons. That doesn’t make them sympathisers of murderers, it acknowledges that we are not all knowing and that two wrongs don’t necessarily make a right.

And really, is there any need for some of the graphic descriptions of what happened to be re-posted here?

I read, I can’t remember where now though, that Mary Bell is an author, under a different name of course.

She also has a daughter, around my age, so late 20’s.

To all those defending those two pieces of s*it, imagine if it was your little boy. They tortured him. There is no defence. They should still be in prison or, if not, then in a psychiatric unit.

Mary Bell was abused from birth. Several times her family were suspicious that her mother had tried to kill her (one such event was her being thrown out of a top floor window). She had a mother who was a sex worker and was with men who wanted to include Mary from an early age. Mary's mother specialised in dominatrix.

That's Bell's background.

'Enidthecat

The more I think about it the more it bothers me that they're given new identities. Shouldn't people be allowed to protect themselves from someone like this'

I'm very similar age both men and the thought that someone my age could end up in a relationship with them and not know is horrifying.

I did read though that a lady who had a son and was in a relationship was warned by social services to immediately stop contact and she was sure it was one of them.

Not sure how true that is but at what point does RT or JV right to a new identity trump a woman or partners right to be safe. Particularly if people found out his identity.

There is no way that the judiciary would sanction the hanging of two 10 year old boys for a crime.

And what was particularly upsetting about the programme was the fact that the mob, consisting mainly of men, wanted the boys let out of the van so they could kill them. Sick doesn't even begin to describe the mindset behind this.

Exactly, Recall, what protection is given to the unsuspecting public, in case they have a relationship with one of these two, and why their rights trumps the rights of others for their children to be safe from abuse and harm.

If we as a society cannot see that we made those two boys, we are truly blind.
There were not inherently evil children. They had tough backgrounds (as thousands of others do) but sadly, horror (call it what you will) erupted through those two children. And that is what they were, children.

The law was effectively bent because of the public outcry at this crime, and they were given adult type sentences. It was an extremely difficult and harrowing case, and nobody can deny the gravity of what happened, but it's still 10 year old children.

Surely we as a society shaped those children?
25 years later, children today will have watched extreme pornography, witnessed extreme violence on video and in the home, been the subject of sexual abuse, physical abuse, verbal abuse. I am not suggesting that Venables and Thompson suffered all these fates, but merely illustrating that this is the society we live in today, let alone 25 years ago.

We can just sit back and pretend it was all the work of 2 evil kids. It wasn't. Their crime was a horrific manifestation of troubled upbringings.

Yes I do believe the boys circumstances played a part in the reason why they did what they did, but also there must have been something wrong with their psyche to commit the horrific crimes that they did. As it is said, not all children who are from abused and neglected backgrounds go on to commit crimes like this, there is something else there within their minds that has developed over time.