About School and detention?

[Recallclock]

Prepared to be flamed.

Dd has sen and is according to schools own safeguarding team 'vulnerable'
Because of bullying and lack of options when we moved her her new school is out of Borough.

There has been a few times she has been kept back as a whole class detention because someone else wouldn't shut up talking and missed her connecting bus and got home very late leaving her waiting forty minutes alone at a bus stop and walking through the door at 6.30pm. (her school finished at 4.10pm but even keeping them back twenty minutes means she misses her commenting bus.)

I had a lot of involvement with the old senco who was brilliant and was in contact regularly but a new one has started and I have little involvement with her however I spoke to her on the advice of Mumsnet and asked for dd to be not kept back if she had not been involved due to her issues getting home and if she had to be given recall for herself if it could be done at lunch or if it had to be after school with notice so I could sort collection. She's never had individual recall.

I have just had a phone call now to say she is being kept back tonight as she hasn't done her homework. I'm not impressed she has not done her homework (she does have organisation issues as part of her sen) but she's not done it so fair enough.
I'm miles away with no car and can't get hold of my Dad to get her so my sen child will be on detention until 5pm and isn't likely to walk through the door until 7pm.
She also doesn't know the buses at other times so is going to be in a right state.

Aibu to have expected them to give a sen child 24 hours notice particularly when I have asked and they agreed or keep her in at lunch?

[Deshasafraisy]

They are putting your vulnerable child in an unsafe position. Kick up absolute shit.

[Greensleeves]

It definitely needs to be approached as a safeguarding failure.

On the subject of no-notice detentions for children without SEN Pengggwyn, I think a dose of common sense on the part of both the school and the family is in order. If a child is going to miss the last available bus, it's pitch dark and both parents are at work, then I would consider that a safeguarding failure as well, and would expect the school to work with me in finding an alternative sanction that didn't put the child at risk.

[Greensleeves]

Its not difficult to just give an alternative sanction, or carry out the detention on a different day - our school is spectacularly poor at communication with parents/carers and you need a transplant surgeon to change the Head's mind on anything, but even they would see sense on this.

[Greensleeves]

It's not your personal sympathy that's required, I imagine most parents couldn't give a hoot about that. If your school's policy was putting my child's physical safety at risk, however, then we wouldn't be adhering to it. Been there, done that.

[upsideup]

Pengggwn

Maybe thats a reason why no notice detentions should be banned? All parents will already have arangements for the child to travel home from school day to day, but like with the OP the child may have SEN or live very far away, the parent could also have other children to pick up from school or may not be able to drive etc. No notice detentions detentions seem completely pointless and potentially very dangerous.
My kids are all primary so this probelm hasnt happened yet but I would like to hope if it did happen a teacher would want to delay the detention by a day or so I was able to make alternative arangements to pick them up.

[Bobbybobbins]

I thought schools could give up to 20mins no notice detentions but longer than that should have 24 hours notice.

[steppemum]

I woudl write a letter on complaint to the school, outlining that the teaxher has overridden the SENCO.
In this context I would use the technique of:

School has been very helpful in accommodating dd over this, as per agreement with SENCO, and quote email.
Unfortunately there seems to be communication issue where some teachers are not following this safeguarding rule - outline the situation.

We fully back the school shoudl sanctions be needed, but want reassurance that they will be within school time, or not on same day so safe transport can be arranged.

[upsideup]

Sorry x post with Greensleeves

[Recallclock]

'The parents know if no-notice detentions are a school policy.'

But Peng I wasn't aware of the no notice being school policy as my child has never had detention!

The only time she has been kept back has been for twenty minutes or so in a no one is going till x and y stop talking.

[goodiegoodieyumyum]

What if a child has an after school activity or appointment does detention takes precedence, my DD had the orthodontist this afternoon she has guitar lessons once a week surely detention cannot come before either of these things or in fact gymnastics or tennis or any other activity you pay for. Detention should take place in school hours once school is finished school is finished, I was not educated in the UK but I went to a very strict school and we only ever had lunch time detentions.

[Greensleeves]

Oh, I would be taking it up with my child, absolutely. We take getting into trouble at school very seriously indeed. Physical safety is a line in the sand, however - no adult in their right mind would send an 11 year old out in the dark with no means of getting home because they had missed the last bus (and didn't HAVE pocket money for a taxi, being from a single parent family on the breadline - not uncommon at all)

[Greensleeves]

I've heard similar grandstanding from teachers before Penggggwyn, lots of it. In practice, however, if a well-informed and articulate parent challenges a school policy on clear safeguarding grounds, through teh proper channels and with a good helping of no-I-won't-be-fobbed-off, the outcome generally ISN'T that the child spends the rest of its academic career in isolation.

[Greensleeves]

Yes, you would - because it wouldn't be your unilateral decision to make. Schools have a lot less power than they like parents to think. As you'll discover if you ever do make it to SLT.

[upsideup]

Pengggwn

I guess I know now that I will not be sending my chidlren to a senior school that implement no notice dententions and this will be something I will need to question when applying, so thankyou OP!
I'm sure they can sometimes work fine and cause no problem but a school/teacher who prioritises their right to punish immediately over the safety of a child is not where I want my children to be.

[Greensleeves]

Most teachers are a lot less pig-headed than this and actually have more than a passing interest in safeguarding children, upside.

[Recallclock]

Pengggwn

Recallclock

But OP, those are no-notice detentions, aren't they?

No I don't think they are. I think there is a difference.
My primary school had a no detention policy at all. But they kept children back ten or so minutes until they stopped talking before letting people go.

I think there is a difference but cannot explain why.