Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To really hate it when atheists take the piss out of those who believe in God?

845 replies

sharkirasharkira · 05/02/2018 14:10

I have several FB friends who are obvious atheists, and often share things about science and/or about the concept of God being stupid -basically saying that anyone who believes in God is an idiot, a child (with an 'imaginary friend') or someone who has no idea about science and the universe.

I get that not everyone has faith in a higher being/religion etc but why the childish name calling and the necessity to take the piss out of those who do? It just really irritates me! Belief in God and an appriciation of science are not mutually exclusive. I find it quite offensive that people who don't know my personal beliefs are essentially saying that if I believe in God I must be an idiot or a child who believes in magical sky fairies, because theres no possible way I can believe in evolution (for example) and be an agnostic.

Aibu to think that people should just let others believe what they want to believe without mocking them for it, even if they don't agree with it?

OP posts:
ReanimatedSGB · 05/02/2018 16:26

I think the superstitious have a problem in that they know, deep down, that their imaginary friend is imaginary, and that's why they get their undies in such a bundle when other people treat the whole myth system (or all the myth systems) with mockery or contempt. And it is mostly dumb people who actually take the imaginary friends seriously. The smarter ones who claim to be 'believers' are usually selling something or using the imaginary friend as leverage to give themselves an advantage over others.

ChaosNeverRains · 05/02/2018 16:26

The problem with anything in life is that if there is an ability to evangelise about it then the evangelists are the ones who shout the loudest and as such are the ones who ultimately create the wider feeling around that thought process.

So e.g. evangelistic Christians shouting about hell and gay marriage and miracles and such like are generaly in the minority, however because the majority aren’t shouting and are just going about their lives on a daily basis and happening to believe in their God are disregarded because they’re not interested in getting involved and don’t want to be seen as one of those types of Christians.

Similarly Muslims blowing themselves up in the name of Allah are in the minority and are doing what they do in the name of rather than because of their cause. But the millions of peace-loving muslims who exist around the world are disregarded and Islam is haled as a terrorist organisation....

Take it away from religion for a second, vegans are mostly just people going about their lives who happen to have a vegan diet. But then you end up with those who believe that it’s the murder of animals, hold protests and so on and who give the entire practice a bad name. Similarly feminism, I and a number of other MN’ers have the feminist boards hidden because of some of the posts on there which really do not show feminism in a positive light at all. But now this is how feminism is seen.

The list goes on but you get the idea, and some atheists are up there with the other evangelists for their cause.

And on the whole there is no need for any of it.

If you believe in a God, then believe in a God. pray to your God and be happy with your life. At the point you start evangelising about that belief or start using that belief to want things to be different for others who do not think as you do, then you should be held accountable for those beliefs, because your beliefs do not trump anything else.

Similarly if you don’t believe in a God then fine. Don’t believe. As long as no-one is forcing their beliefs on you then carry on with your life as is. Comments about sky fairies and imaginary friends don’t make anyone look big or clever, just tell people that you don’t believe and that’s that. If you don’t believe in a hell then comments about it shouldn’t upset you as you don’t believe it exists so you’re not going there.

Personally I don’t believe that there is a God in the way that some do. Might there be a higher power? Don’t know. Maybe there is, maybe there isn’t. But the thought that there is some father figure up there who we should seek a relationship with in order to gain access to their kingdom is beyond me. We wouldn’t advocate for that kind of relationship between individuals in the world so why towards a God? If your father went around killing people and allowing them to suffer and refusing to be a part of their lives unless they worshipped himm you’d be told to go NC, so if there is such a God I wouldn’t want to have anything to do with it.

I do see how people find comfort in their faith to a degree if they e.g. lose a loved one, because they want to believe that that loved one is in a better place. But I do struggle with the need to love something/someone who doesn’t demonstrate that in return and yet demands it for themselves.

But as long as you don’t need to convert me then crack on and believe what you want, and let’s have a healthy discussion about it.

TabbyMack · 05/02/2018 16:29

*I wonder what kind of evidence people think there should be.
*
Oh dear.

Are we talking about the intervening Christian "god" who telepathically communicates with people that believe in him and performs miracles? Who created the universe and wrote/inspired the Bible?

How about the odd actual miracle...limbs reattaching or dead people rising following prayer? He used to do this all the time & wasn't worried about violating the "free will" of faith. Now, in the age of science he does nothing at all that isn't better explained as a natural event. Strange that.

Or, how about a set of writings that could not have been written by the people of the time containing information unavailable to them? If the Bible mentioned germ theory, relativity or the age of the universe...that would be something. It's a real head scratcher that the creator of the universe is content for his one communication to the world to contain such a load of unscientific, historically inaccurate and flat out wrong information.

How about evidence that believers really do achieve something tangible by praying? Something that only happens if you pray. Easy to spot if this was true.

There is an immense amount of evidence that we could expect to see if just one of the Christian claims happened to be true. If they aren't true, then we can expect to see an absence of evidence. Guess what we have? An absence of evidence. And yes, I am familiar with Carl Sagan's famous quote, but it is problematic, which even he acknowledged.

In any event, it is not remotely the place of non-believers to state what evidence they want...logically, it cannot work like this. Those making the claim need to bring the evidence to the table...trying to get out of it by saying daft things like...."Well, what evidence do you expect...god on a cloud with a harp?" is a rather childish sidestep.

stevie69 · 05/02/2018 16:29

apart from that - if he really existed then why is this world so full of suffering?

Because we, as a human race, don't always do the right thing!

MadeleineMaxwell · 05/02/2018 16:29

If your father went around killing people and allowing them to suffer and refusing to be a part of their lives unless they worshipped himm you’d be told to go NC

This is just so Mumsnet, I love it!

chocolateiamydrug · 05/02/2018 16:33

Because we, as a human race, don't always do the right thing!

so God let's thousands of children starve on Africa? Great guy. I shall pray to him from now on.

HandbagKrabby · 05/02/2018 16:33

I think the difference for me is when people do bad things they do bad things but when people do bad things in the name of religion, a proportion of that religion will tie itself in knots to justify the bad behaviour or just gloss over it.

I find old religions fascinating - the Greek gods, the Egyptian gods, Mayan gods, Aztec gods etc etc. But we seem to be able to discuss these in a more measured way because as far as I can tell, the average religious person isn’t basing how they live their life on the book of the dead or praying to Zeus every weekend. I’m sure if I equate that to reading the bible or praying in church on Sundays some would find that massively offensive but to me, it’s the same thing.

PatriarchyPersonified · 05/02/2018 16:34

Diseasesofthesheep

And that's the entire issue. When you try and pin religious people down they always fall back to this position of an 'intangible', 'unmeasurable' God who has no effect on the physical world. (Because if he did we might not measure him, but we could measure his effect on matter and energy)

Surely you can see that that is a position that anyone could make up about anything whatsoever? People use fairies and Santa Claus to illustrate that point perfectly.

I'm willing to bet you don't apply your logic of default belief in something outside the remit of science in any other area of your life except your religion.

Do you think that's because your religious position is so qualitatively different from any other? If so then how is it different?

Or is it because we live in a society that gives religious arguments undue deference and doesn't challenge them?

Seniorcitizen1 · 05/02/2018 16:39

I am an athiest so I do NOT believe there is a god. My DP is a catholic and DOES believe there is a God. Neither of us can prove our standpoint or disprove the standpoint of the other. We would never belittle anyone’s beliefs - and they are beliefs not facts.

computationalAspects · 05/02/2018 16:39

" such as the existence of a god, specifically one which does not have any discernible, or measurable, effect or the universe."

Well, they're a fucking waste of time. Are they even a god?

Does something without discernible or measurable effect exist?

Backscratchesforever · 05/02/2018 16:39

Science... that thing made up of mostly theories made up by Free Masons, dictated to us?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 05/02/2018 16:40

While we have an established church that still gains preferential treatment for its members in matters that have nothing to do with religion, then the least you can do in return op is to be gracious when the rest of us get a bit pissed off

I completely agree, but is it possible you might be blaming the wrong people?

There's a difference between personal faith and organised religion

TabbyMack · 05/02/2018 16:43

Chaos All very politically correct, I'm sure. But people are dying because of religion. Every single day. Loud atheists are heroic, quite frankly.....accommodationist "can't we all get along" virtue-signalling types are missing the point and making the situation worse.

Nobody has the right to demand "respect" for any belief they hold. And to stealthily afford them that right by shutting down criticism on the pathetic grounds that it's "rude" is ignorant, short-sighted and self-serving.

You, and others like you, might think you're a "nicer" person than Richard Dawkins (as an example) but he has acheived more for humanity than you can imagine.

Free thinking matters. Free speech matters. Atheists should not be told to shut up...believers need to grow up and cope with the fact that other views exist, even if they don't like hearing them. If every believer on the planet took that view, the world would be a significantly safer place. But we won't get there if this ridiculous, "How dare you be so rude" crap is allowed to continue.

Backscratchesforever · 05/02/2018 16:43

“so God let's thousands of children starve on Africa? Great guy. I shall pray to him from now on.“

No, the rulers of the Countries of the worlds do.

Even if God got his “sky fairies” to deliver food to these poor children it would be stolen from them.

Backscratchesforever · 05/02/2018 16:43

World*

PatriarchyPersonified · 05/02/2018 16:45

Backscratcherforever

But God is all powerful. He could easily change the circumstances so that those countries were well led, free and fair. He turn them into fertile deltas, free from hunger and want. Yet he doesn't.

Why do you think that is?

Slapdasherie · 05/02/2018 16:45

Bloody Freemasons dictating gravity to everyone.

PatriarchyPersonified · 05/02/2018 16:46

TabbyMack

I wish MN had a 'Like' button.

RingFence · 05/02/2018 16:48

I'm an atheist but would never make fun of religious beliefs on social media. Nor would I make fun of friends who believe in elves/fairies/angels although it all seems on the same level to me. Religion is a comfort blanket to many.

QuimJongUn · 05/02/2018 16:49

FFS, it's not hard. Whatever you believe/don't believe in, just play nice. Don't attempt to ram your belief/absence thereof down anyone's throat; don't use your beliefs as justification for killing/abuse/being a cunt; respect other people's views, even if they differ from yours - as long as they do so respectfully, and if they don't it's fine to tell them to do one. Oh, and accept that just because somebody has faith - even if you do not and cannot fathom why they might - it doesn't mean they condone or subscribe to the extremists who purport to practice that faith.

It really is that straightforward.

ChaosNeverRains · 05/02/2018 16:50

Because we, as a human race, don't always do the right thing! now this I do have a problem with. Because when Good things happen the response is that God listened to your prayers and is glorious. When people do bad things it’s because God gave humans free choice and they chose to do bad things.

You can’t have it both ways. If humans are responsible for the bad, then humans deserve the credit for the good.

If God is responsible and glorified for the good, then he needs to be accountable for the bad. So which is it?

leonardthelemming · 05/02/2018 16:52

God chose to give man free will, and thanks to Eve, she soon ruined peace on Earth.

Free will, indeed. And Eve chose - sensibly, in my opinion - knowledge (i.e. education) over ignorance.

Education is often regarded as a prerequisite to the emancipation of women.

So Eve is the heroine in the story. (And god is the villain, for not providing her with knowledge in the first place, and then setting her up with the serpent trick.)

QuimJongUn · 05/02/2018 16:52

Free thinking matters. Free speech matters. Atheists should not be told to shut up

...and by the same token, neither should those who believe in God.

And while nobody had the right to demand respect, as human beings I'd like to think we would behave respectfully towards others anyway. It's just decent to do so, isn't it? Whatever your beliefs.

hungryhenryshouldeatelsewhere · 05/02/2018 16:52

@TabbyMack well said, very well said. Shame the religious folk will stick their fingers in their ears and go "LA LA LA LA LA", they don't understand reason or logic. Technically didn't god make you write that if god controls everything in the universe?

PatriarchyPersonified · 05/02/2018 16:53

ChaosNeverReigns

Exactly. When the bad stuff happens it's 'God moves in mysterious ways'. From the same people who are happy to let God take the credit when something good happens.

If God really does 'move in mysterious ways', then we can draw no conclusions about his nature at all from the world. He is just as likely to be a perfectly evil God, who wishes to maximise suffering and pain, as he is to be a perfectly good God, who only wants the best from us.

Swipe left for the next trending thread