To really hate it when atheists take the piss out of those who believe in God?

[sharkirasharkira]

I have several FB friends who are obvious atheists, and often share things about science and/or about the concept of God being stupid -basically saying that anyone who believes in God is an idiot, a child (with an 'imaginary friend') or someone who has no idea about science and the universe.

I get that not everyone has faith in a higher being/religion etc but why the childish name calling and the necessity to take the piss out of those who do? It just really irritates me! Belief in God and an appriciation of science are not mutually exclusive. I find it quite offensive that people who don't know my personal beliefs are essentially saying that if I believe in God I must be an idiot or a child who believes in magical sky fairies, because theres no possible way I can believe in evolution (for example) and be an agnostic.

Aibu to think that people should just let others believe what they want to believe without mocking them for it, even if they don't agree with it?

In all other aspects of life my mum is a strong and independent woman who I would consider an amazing role model. But I can’t reconcile her religious beliefs. Although not overtly religious, and she certainly doesn’t impose her beliefs on others she attends a Catholic Church. As a woman this offends me hugely and I can’t respect that part of her. I feel the same way about any religious people and yes I judge them, but I wouldn’t openly mock.

I wonder what kind of "evidence" people think there should be. God on a cloud surrounded by angels on harps?

This reminds me of a funny story. My Dad died of cancer but while he was alive, we had just walked out of a particularly bad oncology appointment into the foyer of the Hospital only to be faced by 2 Harpists playing. He had a great sense of humour and laughed his head off saying "I thought I'd gone then".

You have to have choice and free will to find him yourself.

Yes Christianity is being wiped out. Churches are emptying weekly, and 90% of those who attend won’t be here long. If Mumsnetters get their way there won’t be any of us, no school holidays “dictated” by us, nor faith schools.

The world was evil when Jesus arrived, Israel was full of priests having sex with 3 year olds for example. Jesus was sent to warn us all and to show us the way.
God chose to give man free will, and thanks to Eve, she soon ruined peace on Earth.

Life here was always meant to be temporary, there was always going to be “suffering” because we were given temporary shells.

Genesis 1:31 says: “God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.”

But we were given freewill and this is where things turned south.
This obviously shows God didn’t know all, he knows much, but not all.
And if we had been programmed what kind of life would be that be?

People say how can God let people die of famine? He hasn’t, the world has enough food for us all. Supermarkets all over the world are fully stocked, it is man who has taken their free will and made the evil choice not to feed the world.

Natural disasters; The Bible says it’s because of sin that nature was corrupted and “thorns and thistles” entered the world. Romans 8:22 says, “We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.”

God did not create evil and suffering. Its true that he did create the potential for evil to enter the world, because that was the only way to create the potential for genuine goodness & love. But it was human beings, in our free will, who brought that potential evil into our reality.

Many of you are parents, you had children not knowing the outcome of their lives, their behaviours. But you had children anyway. We are Gods children (if you believe so) and he choose to have us anyway, because he loves us.

Yabu - you believe in something that had no foundation whatsoever. If a friend would come and declare that they believed in the spaghetti monster, would you not find that odd? Your God it not better or more real than the spaghetti monster.

I don't understand how intelligent and educated people can dismiss the possibility (not likelihood, just possibility) of the existence of a higher power out of hand.

I'm not sure they do. I suppose it depends on whether you're a Miriam-Webster atheist (believes in the non-existence of god), or an OED athiest (does not believe in the existence of god).

I'm the latter. I suspect most atheists are. I also suspect many religious people think that all/most atheists are the former.
I don't have a problem with god as such. Might be true. I do have a very big problem with belief. Belief means accepting something without any supporting evidence (or in extreme cases, in the face of evidence to the contrary). Why would anyone do that, when we have the tried and tested scientific method for tearing evidence apart and looking for flaws?

An atheist says:

I don't personally buy the idea of a creator/I don't believe in religion as I don't think it makes any sense, etc etc

This is fine, and just an expression of their opinion that is different to that of a religious person.

An atheist says:

Believing in God is idiotic and anyone who does is stupid. Of course God isn't real, you would have to be a moron to believe that.

This is not ok, because you are saying calling that person names for having a different belief to you!

A religious person says:

I believe in the idea of a creator/am religious religion as I don't think it makes any sense to imperil my soul but I do not foist any part of my belief on anyone else. Each person needs to find their own salvation.

This is fine. it is taking a personal position and living with it in their own private life.

An evangelical/fundamentalist says:

Believing in God is the only way to live and for people in this country to live and anyone who does not wany my faith to control their lives is a sinner and therefore should be ignored and oppressed. Of course God is real, you would have to be a moron to believe anything other than that and my faith should dictate how you live your life. You do not get equality or equal access to schools for your kids.

I will stop insulting religion when it gets out of my face explicitly (no same sex marriage for non-believers) and implicitly (we are special cause we are religious, of course we should get to control school admissions).

Plenty of people do feel God has stepped in and played a part in our lives, that he has shown himself to us.

If no one believed in you but asked you to perform would you?

I always found this attititude to be rather convenient.

It is convenient. It doesn't mean that it's necessarily wrong.

Patriarchy, I'm familiar with the concept. I'm not suggesting that all atheists should accept that the theists are right - if I were, I would certainly be encountering a fallacy on that score. What I am suggesting is that perhaps we should stop believing that science can answer questions which are, by definition, beyond the scope of science. It is not unscientific to believe in god - it is just as much a leap of faith to presume that science is everything, as it is to presume that it isn't.

Borderline11

Given that God is (apparently) omnipotent and omniscient, he has the ability and knowledge to prove his existence to every single person on earth, in the particular specific way that would definitely convince them. For some people that may well be a cloud with angels sitting on it.

Yet he chooses to not reveal himself in any way whatsoever.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, yet God it seems rather daringly refuses to provide even ordinary proof".

I think it's lack of empathy actually. On the part of Christians. As an atheist, I can completely understand that to a Christian their religion is the most important thing in their lives. (I actually find it harder to understand those who are nice and tolerant and just pop along to church on a Sunday.). The sky fairy/invisible pink unicorn thing is not a piss take, it's a thought experiment. It's something to try to help deists to understand just how your deity appears to us.

I tolerate a load of crap from Christians because I understand that's what they believe. I mostly don't even present my point of view as I can see that believing makes them happy and why would I want to make them unhappy if they're capable of happy delusion. Just sometimes I'm provoked too far.

@Backscratchesforever I would call that mental delusion. Sorry.

I used to be a staunch Dawkinsian atheist. Then I realised what an utter, utter fuckhead that man is and ceased trying to emulate him. I'm still an atheist thanks to him, though.

Religious people and atheists have much more in common than they don't (those 1999 gods they don't believe in, for starters). If there was no religion, I reckon people would still find excuses to ostracise, other, hurt, maim, abuse, rape and kill each other, though. Human condition, innit.

As church attendance and Christian belief wanes in this country, so we see the rise of woo, horoscopes, crystals, anti-vaxxing, flat earthing, Tarot, 'spirituality', Myers-Briggs, heck, even 'What potato are you?' type quizzes on Facebook, and other such unsubstantiated stuff. Lots of humans have a need to identify with something larger than themselves, for community.

I personally don't think any god is real and therefore think religious believers have misplaced their energy, but I also think ignoring or mocking this need is daft, self-defeating and a failure to recognise the situation for what it actually is. Atheists have the self-same tendencies and some have just chosen to ally with the more 'militant' wing of their particular community. This is also misplaced energy IMO.

Equally, I think the CofE should piss right off out of secular affairs.

So, my personal belief is that God exists, whereas you are categorically saying that He doesn't: with no evidence to back it up.

My belief is Santa Claus exists, other people categorically say he doesn't, with no evidence to back it up.

I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm trying to illustrate what is wrong with the quoted argument.

Diseasesofthesheep

What questions are beyond the scope of science?

Yes. They're mutually exclusive.

No; they're not!

I absolutely question the intelligence of religious people too. It's extremely hard in my profession to see teachers that are otherwise articulate and knowledgeable about their subject matter, to then spout nonsense to children and adults alike about non-existent deities.

It's even worse when you hear these people in the staff room arguing their homophobic beliefs then going back to class. Disgusts me.

Anyway i'm going to have to leave this thread, too much of a wind up.
Op, the only idiots are the ones who don't believe, i am amazed that seemingly educated people believe we just came from nothing.

It works both ways.

I'm an atheist - but don't care whether others are religious or not. I never talk about it as its just not an issue for me.

My in-laws are lovely but are religious and quite disapproving of us not going to church. They have said we are failing our children etc. I get it from their point of view but its very frustrating as I am a good parent who does my best for my children.

My in-laws also don't seem to understand how you can be a good person in life unless you are guided by the church. I am not religous but try to treat people with respect and kindness - and teach my children the same.

leonardthelemming

That statement was in response to somebody saying that they couldn't understand how anyone of intelligence and education could believe in god - a viewpoint that, as an atheist of your second definition, I find disappointingly dismissive. I've know many people of considerable intelligence, education, and scientific background who believed in a god, and I don't find it odd at all, though I don't share their belief.

@BackScratchesForever You believe that natural disasters are acts of a God? When they are scientifically proven? What God do you think makes them happen?

My child about to start in reception will not get into our (only) catchment school down the road, and be sent 2 miles away instead, because so many children who live OUT of catchment (even 30 miles away if the fancy took them) get places there instead, purely because of their parents' belief in the imaginary sky fairy. Ditto when it gets to secondary school. While we have an established church that still gains preferential treatment for its members in matters that have nothing to do with religion, then the least you can do in return op is to be gracious when the rest of us get a bit pissed off. You are not some embattled minority, you accrue active privilege for your kids as a result of your beliefs. I either show my kids I'm a hypocrite and a liar by going to church just to gain a place, or watch them be sent to a crappy school miles away. So in sum: please stop moaning.

Borderline - we don't believe we came from nothing. Are you naive enough to think that we are the only solar system in our universe? Are you naive enough to think that humans are the only living beings in the universe? That's pretty arrogant.

What questions are beyond the scope of science?

Those for which we are unable to collect evidence, those which are intangible or unmeasurable, even indirectly - such as the existence of a god, specifically one which does not have any discernible, or measurable, effect or the universe.

borderline11

This thread is mostly about the Christian God, and that is the belief system I have most knowledge of.

But If the 2 other monotheistic gods Allah and Jahweh also claim to be omnipotent and allow suffering of babies to continue for their own ‘mysterious’ reasons, then yes they are arseholes, too.

but why would you not question the intelligence of somebody who believes in an imaginary sky God who impregranted a poor peasant girl and other crazy stories.

apart from that - if he really existed then why is this world so full of suffering? Either he is not the good god that people claim he is (so why pray to him?) or is is not omnipotent (and no god). either way - you have to be pretty gullible and stupid naive to believe in this kind of nonsense.