To really hate it when atheists take the piss out of those who believe in God?

[sharkirasharkira]

I have several FB friends who are obvious atheists, and often share things about science and/or about the concept of God being stupid -basically saying that anyone who believes in God is an idiot, a child (with an 'imaginary friend') or someone who has no idea about science and the universe.

I get that not everyone has faith in a higher being/religion etc but why the childish name calling and the necessity to take the piss out of those who do? It just really irritates me! Belief in God and an appriciation of science are not mutually exclusive. I find it quite offensive that people who don't know my personal beliefs are essentially saying that if I believe in God I must be an idiot or a child who believes in magical sky fairies, because theres no possible way I can believe in evolution (for example) and be an agnostic.

Aibu to think that people should just let others believe what they want to believe without mocking them for it, even if they don't agree with it?

in some Faith schools (small minority) they are teaching this, and that the Loch Ness Monster exists

So - are you seriously trying to suggest the Loch Ness monster doesn’t exist? 😧

I hate the fact that I have to be labeled an atheist for my lack of belief, that is how ingrained religion is in society, I'm not a teacher but I dont have to refer/label myself a non teacher

You only need to use the word in this kind of situation, surely. And not even then really. Legally, the protected characteristic is non belief, not atheism. I wouldn't describe myself as a Catholic, or Christian, outside of a conversation like this. And even then I generally say " belief" or "no belief" unless responding to a point or talking about background.

But yes. The Christian religion is deeply ingrained in society. The Church of England is the established Church. It's wrong, of course.

You see those that slag the church and religious people probably don’t know a lot about it. I have recently joined the church at the grand old age of 35. We have a well educated ‘science geek’ vicar who is inclusive and joins in on lgbt marches etc. Everyone is welcome and I feel at home there. It’s not always how it used to be. The same things come out in sermons. I don’t see why people have to be nasty towards others beliefs and dismiss it as fairy stories etc. What difference does it make to you?

You see those that slag the church and religious people probably don’t know a lot about it. I have recently joined the church at the grand old age of 35.

I would again make the distinction between the church and religious people; the church(es, and their equivalents) are not immune from criticism and neither are the faiths themselves.

The response that people who criticise the church ‘just don’t understand it/are ignorant!’ is so tired and itself ignorant. Many of us spent many years of our lives within a faith and at least as informed of our previous faith and its tenets as many of the continuing faithful. And sometimes we know more about how a particular faith developed because we have questioned and researched.

The Christian religion is deeply ingrained in society. The Church of England is the established Church. It's wrong, of course.

And that’s why we end up with labels, and hats why it matters. Because I don’t get to send my child to a state school that isn’t tied up with ththe church unless I move somewhere much less nice and not conducive to my work. Because even secular schools have a requirement to promote Christianity. Because of all the bloody ‘diversity monitoring’ forms that ask. Because of the many people who don’t respect others by keeping their faith to themselves.

Looneytunes253

The problem is that religion is just fairy stories, and dangerous fairy stories at that. They inspire people to do all sorts of terrible things.

You can't claim special privilege to be above being mocked when your holy text claims that we are all born as sinners and then ordered to be good, on pain of eternal punishment. And that we somehow owe God something because of a bizzare human sacrifice that happened 2000 years ago. It's a fundamentally horrible ideology that views humans as nothing more than raw material in a cruel social experiment.

Your vicar sounds nice. It's great that he is so progressive, I'd question what church he belongs to that allow him to have those kind of opinions though. Could he perform a gay wedding in his church if he wanted to? Do you think he would want to?

Sorry I haven’t read this all the way through, but I had to share that when I was flicking though active threads, I read this title as ‘I hate it when anaesthetists take piss out of people who believe in god!’ And was shocked that this was a common occurrence . Anyway as you were

@PatriarchyPersonified I don’t think he could perform a gay wedding I’m not sure but he’s not alone in his views. There’s a few priests here who believe the same kinda views and they have been heavily involved in the marches too. There’s an award the churches can gain for being inclusive. Christianity is changing!

I agree with many of you when you say that the problem is people. People who mock others - for whatever reason - are not nice people.

When it comes to faith, I do think that it should be able to cope with robust and humorous challenge without reaching for the smelling salts and claiming persecution. Many people of faith really are persecuted in the world - Christians in North Korea, for example - and in the UK we have no idea what this is really like. But there's a difference between a challenge of ideas and a destruction of a person.

I'm a Christian and I am happy to be called into debate. But I'll enjoy it far more if we can all be respectful of one another, if not our beliefs/lack thereof. You won't find me posting sickly memes on FB, but I sometimes post statuses that mention faith because it's a huge part of who I am. I'll never impose prayer on others, though. If people who do not have faith are going through difficulties I'm more concerned with how I can help practically and tell them I'm thinking of them. Sometimes they ask for prayer, and then of course I will. Again, it's about respect for a person.

I'm with the OP in that I dislike aggressive atheism. But I equally dislike aggressive religion.

I don’t see why people have to be nasty towards others beliefs and dismiss it as fairy stories etc. What difference does it make to you?

As a teacher it means I cannot get promotion in certain schools, it also means some children get to go to better schools because their parents attend church.

It means schools have to have daily worship.

It means I have to pay taxes to an organisation that disciminates against me.

It means that little girls in PACE schools are being taught they are inferior and must do what their father tells them, then what their husband tells them once they are married. No thought of them not marrying or not marrying a man.

That some children are being told slavery wasn't bad, it was part of God's plan.

And frankly if you are religious you should be thinking about the damage done in the name of your faith.

Tapandgo

That is the current scientific opinion, obviously creationists have an alternative 'theory'.

@sashh I have never heard anything more ridiculous. Children are taught about all religions in school nowadays and definitely not taught they need to marry or that they are inferior!! How exactly does the organisation discriminate against you personally?

Plus how would your religion STOP you from gaining a promotion? You must have some seriously outdated schools in your area? That maybe needs raising as schools are supposed to be inclusive. Even the faith schools around here don’t necessarily employ all catholic people.

But there's a difference between a challenge of ideas and a destruction of a person.

This! It’s a basic principle of not being an arsehole. If you disagree with someone you go after the IDEA not the person. Exactly the same as you would do in a professional environment when someone disagrees with you.

Arse hole statement at work:
Well that’s a stupid idea Sam, what were you thinking?

Non arsehole statement;

Thanks for being that up Sam. Our computer systems currently don’t support x - could we look at alternative ways of doing thisbperhaps?

Personal attacks are not ok - challenging an idea you find unpleasant, distasteful or wrong is fine (actually its essential.)

Arsehole statements:

Religious people are stupid
Sam is stupid because he believes in a sky fairy
I’m not hiring you because you’re Muslim

Non arsehole statements:

I have some issues with how Islam and politics are combined
I disagree with how fundamentalist Christianity treats women
Orthodox Judaism I feel has a sexism problem that Reform Judaism doesn’t.

Always always address the ideology do not attack the person

I personally think religion has no place in education or a civilised state. Secularism is for me the way to go - beliefs are tolerated and those holding them are protected from persecution with the framework of the law of the land. That’s a belief i hold quite firmly and manage to do so without haranguing or belittling any individual who holds a belief.

"God exists"
"God doesn't exist"
Both are statements of belief.
Neither can be 'proved', by science or any other method.

And this is a good example of why we use sky fairies and Father Christmas and invisible intangible unicorns and similar analogies. It shows up the fallacy of that argument. Fairies exist. Fairies don't exist. Both statements of belief. Yet you think that's such a demeaning comparison that you accuse us of mocking you?

'Because of the many people who don’t respect others by keeping their faith to themselves.'
You see, I question this. To me, lack of respect is about being rude and derogatory, not about having to keep faith ( or absence of faith ) to yourself.
So, consider the following Facebook posts

1. I'm counting my blessings and thanking God for his provision this week.
2. Picture of the empty tomb, posted on Easter Day with caption "Christ is risen"
3. There probably isn't a God so don't worry about it.
4. Science has disproved Christianity (with picture of test tubes).
5. Christians are illogical and believe in sky fairies.

6.Atheists are stupid and arrogant for believing that the human mind has to be the most sophisticated thing in the universe.

In my book, 1-4 not rude or slagging off someone of a different thought system ( regardless of what you might feel personally about how crass or not any of them might be). 5 and 6 are rude and slagging people off. You might personally think that belief in God is equivalent believing in fairies and is illogical. You might personally think that it is arrogant to think there is nothing beyond what the human mind can fully understand and rationalise. You might even want to say. ' I think belief in God is like believing in fairies' All fine in my book, but putting it in the terms of 5 or 6 is rude, unnecessary and snacks of needing to indulge in 'otherism' to feel secure.

i don’t see why people have to be nasty towards others beliefs and dismiss it as fairy stories etc. What difference does it make to you?

No one should be attacking you personally because of your faith.
At the same time, the imposition of religion into public life does affect people. Think of women in America who are denied access to safe abortion. Or women in many countries who are treated like chattel in the name of religion. Or the proposed blasphemy laws that tony Blair nearly got through
Or the women molested in Vienna on New Year’s Eve - their mayor told them to dress modestly so as not to arouse men. That’s making women in an allegedly secular society lose a freedom to appease religious men.
Other examples: choice of schools, widows self immolation, FGM, the list goes on and on. Because so much of religion isn’t the nice inclusive place that your church sounds - far too much of it is reinforcing social systems that oppress women, enforce caste systems, keep the Catholic Church mind boggligly rich, keep the poor poor and deny them access to family planning...

.. if all churches were as inclusive and decent as yours then I’d be inclined to be more tolerant of religion as a concept.

Being free to make fun of religion is a huge step forward that we should never take for granted. We should never forget that in our country at one time, and all over the world right now, people who speak out are murdered for it.

You see, I question this. To me, lack of respect is about being rude and derogatory, not about having to keep faith ( or absence of faith ) to yourself.

I was talking less about FB and more about the category of things in the rest of my post - those occurrences in public life where some of those of faith demand privilege, voice and/or influence that affects everyone, not just those of their faith. Expecting the state to fund state education, knowing that it prevents many children going to their local state schools, means others have no practical option but to go to a school that instructs them in a religion that is not their own, and that faith selection can exclude many of the most deprived and vulnerable children. The Catholic Church demanding that the state drop its policy that new state-funded faith schools at least pay lip service to diversity, integration and community service by taking 50% of pupils on grounds other than faith. The idea that children in state schools shouldn’t bet taught facts such as same-sex marriage because it’s in conflict with church teaching. When the churches think they should have influence on legislation that affects everyone, because life is easier when the law aligns with your religion’s rules.

When religion and its labels affect me and mine, I find I also need a label to put another point of view.

@sashh I have never heard anything more ridiculous. Children are taught about all religions in school nowadays and definitely not taught they need to marry or that they are inferior!! How exactly does the organisation discriminate against you personally?

About 1000 children in the UK are in schools that follow the Advanced Christian Education syllabus. Have a look at the link on my previous post.

It should be ridiculous but because we have faith schools in this country it isn't. There are also homeschoolers using this curriculum.

If you can't be bothered have a look at this one

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-27681560

How does it discriminate against me? Well I have to pay taxes for faith schools, I also have to pay for Bishops in the house of lords who do not represent me.

For the people who say they dislike aggressive atheism and equally aggressive religion. There is no parity. ' Aggressive' atheism is posting unkind memes and protesting; aggressive religion is beheading; harassing women trying to access medical care; stoning women to death shooting cartoonists; calling for homosexuals to be imprisoned or worse.

Another link, this one says 2000 children in the UK

www.patheos.com/blogs/leavingfundamentalism/2012/04/19/what-is-accelerated-christian-education/

Plus how would your religion STOP you from gaining a promotion? You must have some seriously outdated schools in your area? That maybe needs raising as schools are supposed to be inclusive. Even the faith schools around here don’t necessarily employ all catholic people.

It’s allowable under the law. VC and foundation faith schools are allowed to reserve 20% of posts for people of that faith, VA schools and most academies can reserve as many posts as they like for people who practise that faith.

I’m not sure where you get the idea that schools are supposed to be inclusive. We allow schools to practice religious discrimination against four year olds.

But can you imagine the outcry if there was the opposite? A atheist, or even a secular school that reserved a proportion of its posts for atheists, to ensure balance?

Of course, we have to use our imaginations because opening secular state schools is forbidden. More faith schools are a-ok.

But yes, of course, religion is fluffy and harmless and not seeking to control anyone, and isn’t having a negative effect on anyone outside the faith.

The thought fox. The op was about people slagging off others, not about awful things people do in the name of religion. Awful things have and are being done in the name of atheistic communism too. I think that is a different discussion.