To think “like fuck should it be made easier”

[SmileEachDay]

For men to work in refuges.

The Sunday Times are reporting that Women’s Aid are looking at how to make it easier for trans identifying men to work in their refuges. Women who have recently been raped or seriously abused are being put at risk of bein re traumatised in the name of liberal bullshit. Women are being put at risk of not being able to access services because they need female only spaces in the name of being fucking “nice”. Women are being sold down this shitty river, and have no paddle.

t.co/t2RmDdwJyr

Also - I can understand anyone (of any gender and/or sex) sympathising with mistreated women and wanting very badly to help them. If this is the case, and you know that your very presence can upset some women (for reasons that have nothing to do with you personally), surely you would opt to help women in other ways than working in a shelter?

If you insist on working in a shelter because YOU ARE A WOMAN JUST LIKE ANY OTHER AND YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO, you are making everything about yourself and your need to feel that you are a real woman. Which is not what shelters are for.

The latest level of this fucking madness! When will it end? Thank fuck for the women here and on twitter. Some days I feel like the whole world has gone loopy.
And also really frustrated at women MP'S who collude with this bollocks and women who have a platform and won't speak out.

When we've lost everything women have fought for. When countless children are harmed by this -What will they say?
I'm gut wrenched at some of the cowardice I see.

Why would they even want to work in a refuge?! This is driving me mad!!

Tories aren't much better. I live in a county with very well respected girls schools (of which I have a dd at one) and I wrote to my MP expressing concerns about the gender recognition act And could he explain what this meant for my daughter's school.

He couldn't give me an answer. Couldn't address my concerns and sat firmly on the fence. It's so frustrating.

Trans rights needs reigning in and this needs to come from the TiMs who are brave enough to speak out and denounce the gobshites.

It's bizarre to need to lobby WA on this isn't it.

The Scottish consultation site is a smooth platform for getting opinions, certainly ticks the consultation box - great for those already engaged. Of course the Scottish have involved the parties you'd want to be involved - WA etc all in support. It would be interesting to know how the issues have been resolved in the work already undertaken. I see reference online to pragmatic discussion. Not read specifics on the pragmatic solutions. Anyone know more detail besides the statements of support issued?

I've commented on the related thread over in feminism but I'll say the same thing here. I've emailed women's aid, and told them my experience of leaving an abusive ex, the overwhelming fear of men in the last 7 years and how if a male person had been the one to welcome me into that shelter id have walked away. I've asked them to please listen to other women about this and reconsider their position. I urge anyone and everyone else to email them, if you've used a DV service or not

crazy

Yanbu op.

Elendon..I always thought that TransSexual people were people who had actually transitioned to male/female through surgery and very much regard themselves as being the sex they have transitioned to, rather than the sex they were born with....Transgender, on the other hand, being the sex that the person identified with but not necessarily going for the surgery.

I think it’s really important to clearly understand the difference between TransSexual and TransGender..I think they all get lumped together sometimes which I don’t think is fair on TransSexuals.

Sergio your experience is what we and WA should be listening to.

Fairenuff..LOL😂...If I had the money for membership, I might just paint on a moustache, dress up as a man and demand admittance to Muirfield Golf Club.

Good grief. I could weep.
(Yanbu)

Mermaid you can't actually transition and become a different sex to the one you were born as. You can have surgery to give the appearance of genitalia of the opposite sex but it won't change your basic biology. Many such people understand that they are not actually the sex they have transitioned to but have found a sort of 'compromise' if you like (there are some great transwomen who comment on the feminist board here and there so it would be better if they explain as I don't want to impose myself on their experience as everyone us unique).

I do agree however that the term transgender has now become so broad a definition that people with genuine gender dysphoria (a distressing condition) are lumped in with a some very unpleasant individuals who now seem to believe their penises are 'female' and other nonsense. These are the people who are most vocal and doing damage to women's rights.

It breaks my heart that the right of a tiny minority of MEN who change their gender trump the rights of every single woman.
We should be on the street marching about this frankly.
I feel the growing movement of trans men and their rights is such a threat to women. Where are our rights??

ChirpyBurpy...I agree that no amount of surgery will change your biological make up..the point I was trying to make (maybe badly) is that post operative TransSexuals have the courage of their convictions. It must be heart wrenching to have gender dysmorphia and feel the need to have surgery because you believe you are in the wrong body. I don’t feel the same way about a penis owner who puts on makeup and a dress and identifies as being a woman. I would have no probs with someone that I knew was a post operative who wanted to use the ladies loo, but would object to anyone with a penis....it’s all a bit of a minefield really, how can you tell the difference? In any case, I don’t believe that anyone with a penis should be allowed near a Woman’s Aid facility, or be allowed to go to a Woman’s Prison. It would be a helluva lot simpler if TransGender identified as Transgender(P) , penis, or Transgender(V) vagina...I find it all rather confusing.

Mermaid you're right - it is confusing and I think most people on MN started off thinking along the lines of 'live and let live' and wanting to accommodate people who suffer from gender dysphoria.

Sadly the militant trans activists are not only damaging women's rights, they are also now damaging the rights of those who are trans who just want to live a quiet life and for them I feel terribly sad and a lot of compassion as they are going to feel the backlash. There is another thread at the moment on Feminist chat about 'transphobia'. This whole situation is causing so many casualties - women and transgender people who would never dream of encroaching women's spaces.

I do appreciate where you are coming from, I really do.......

DearSergio will email too.

Would also be good to ask if they will consult with women currently using their services.

And what other specific engagement they have planned with DA victims.

And what research/information they already have around the importance of women only spaces, of women valuing help from other women.

They surely have a lot more knowledge already on this than they will pull together in a 3 month review.

FFS. A very caring gay friend of mine donates every month to women’s refuges and recently contacted one to volunteer. He was declined due to being male, which is fair enough, but he was a little disappointed that he couldn’t help. Maybe he should go back in a dress?!

What are we actually going to DO about it though?

It’s like a giant steam roller.

I will do the Scottish thing in the morning & contact WA. I’ve never used their services, but I think ALL of our voices are important, I think it’s important that they hear ‘strong’ voices saying ‘No, this isn’t acceptable’. I want our daughters and our granddaughters to have this safe space god forbid they should ever need it.

I've been feeling for a while now that maybe we need a third gender of trans. They can create their own safe spaces, compete in their own sports competitions, have their own prisons, toilets, etc.

I also find it really interesting that you hear so very little about the issues women transitioning to men face. Are there as many? Are men ever referred to as cis men?

Are men ever referred to as cis men?

Very rarely because it's mostly used in a pejorative way to put women down and infer some weird privilege hierarchy. The only group of men I've really seen it aimed at are gay men and it's done for similar reasons.

If men want to work as counsellors and help victims of violence, why don't they work with men? And if it's about the trans, what is to stop them setting up a Trans Aid shelter?

If men want to work as counsellors and help victims of violence, why don't they work with men?

Aw come on, there's no validation in there, there's no power and control over women if they do that.

They have no greater satisfaction then when they force women to accept the lie, repeat the lie and defend the lie.

It's all about getting off for them.

I’d like to thank MNHQ for confirming to me their support for a respectful space to debate this issue. In a world where women are no platformed for voicing concern, that’s enormously valuable.