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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think “like fuck should it be made easier”

99 replies

SmileEachDay · 04/02/2018 09:30

For men to work in refuges.

The Sunday Times are reporting that Women’s Aid are looking at how to make it easier for trans identifying men to work in their refuges. Women who have recently been raped or seriously abused are being put at risk of bein re traumatised in the name of liberal bullshit. Women are being put at risk of not being able to access services because they need female only spaces in the name of being fucking “nice”. Women are being sold down this shitty river, and have no paddle.

t.co/t2RmDdwJyr

OP posts:
sexnotgender · 04/02/2018 11:47

fairenuff no idea, it is a good idea though.

I was getting very irritated filling out the consultation and had to refrain from saying FFS don’t be so ridiculous to most of the questions.

GlitterGlue · 04/02/2018 11:50

Oh fuck this shit. An adult penis does not belong in a women's refuge.

I hope they reach this conclusion, but suspect they'll allow self id as long as they pinky promise not to rape anyone.

AnnieAnoniMouse · 04/02/2018 11:54

To all getting absolutely bloody ridiculous.

We need someone to stop pussyfooting around the whole thing.

HumphreyCobblers · 04/02/2018 11:56

It is this situation arising that makes me really realise that Germaine Greer was right when she said we have no idea just how much men hate us.

I also had no idea how many handmaidens there were out there, happy to throw women under a bus.

My lovely friend, who is clever and feminist, AGONISES over not letting TIM into female sport. She worries about being unfair. Hmm

CoolCarrie · 04/02/2018 11:56

Thank you for the Scottish Government link,. Everyone should take the time to fill this in, it is open to all of us.

Fairenuff · 04/02/2018 11:57

I would like anyone who is pro self identification to explain to me why we have sex segregated places in the first place. That would be a good starting point for them to then explain to me why we don't need them any more.

Peanutbuttercheese · 04/02/2018 11:59

I see a reversal in everything women fought for. This last piece of information is too much.

We need to campaign women's aid, I was involved with them years ago and was offered a seat on the committee of a refuge. Due to work commitments I couldn't take it up.

Apart from lobbying women's aid that is the way to have a voice actually become involved with them.

ReggaetonLente · 04/02/2018 12:05

I tried to talk about this issue earlier this week with some friends I hadn’t seen in a while. They are very switched on, intelligent people so I was surprised that they seem to have swallowed this crap hook line and sinker. It’s all very worrying.

OvaHere · 04/02/2018 12:12

ReggaetonLente

I think this is because most of the wider public don't have much of an interest and see it as a niche issue. A woman I tried to talk to about it last week described it as such.

Despite me painstakingly trying to point out the ramifications of us losing the word woman to define our sex class her view was very much that these people are such a small percentage of the population it can't possibly make a difference.

In addition to that what they have heard generally comes from MSM who have been lobbied heavily by Trans Inc about the language they use in their articles. So much of the time the public will either not realise the person in question is actually a man or they will assume they are all 'Hayley Cropper' type transwomen not the Andi Dier type.

chirpyburbycheapsheep · 04/02/2018 12:12

I am heartened to see a thread on AIBU (not just over on the feminist board) that overwhelmingly agrees this is nuts and very very dangerous.

A year ago I suspect there would have been a lot more cries of 'transphobic' (although perhaps those people have realised that they are unable to precisely say what being transphobic means. Or indeed, what being a woman means, at least without resorting to gender stereotypes and feelings).

ReggaetonLente · 04/02/2018 12:15

Yes Ova. Someone quoted Lily Madigan at me at one point.

I had to point out that LM may have a vested interest in the issue.

OvaHere · 04/02/2018 12:17

I had to point out that LM may have a vested interest in the issue.

Our Lily - a vested interest. Surely not! Grin

MissBeehiving · 04/02/2018 12:23

The arguments that transactivists make around “the cotton ceiling” to guilt trip women into sex with TIM for fear of being accused of transphobia, expose them for what they are which is bullying and coercive women haters.

DistanceCall · 04/02/2018 13:11

The biggest difference between men and women is that the latter has the natural instinct to protect and care for others.

Bullshit.

That said, self ID is madness.

theftbyfinding · 04/02/2018 13:17

I was filling out the survey but couldn't find any real solid statistics on the numbers of trans people in Scotland. Does anyone know where to find this data, or if it even exists?

Kidsarekarma · 04/02/2018 13:50

Thank you sexnotgender for the link.
I have completed the form and hope to god this proposed change doesn't go through, what a crock of shit. The questions made me think how naive are the Scottish government to even consider this!

DaisyDrip · 04/02/2018 13:50

YADNBU. This madness has to stop. Woman have fought for the (limited) equality we have now. We simply can't allow penis' in frocks to take them away from us our daughters and granddaughters.

k2p2k2tog · 04/02/2018 14:30

I have filled out the Scottish consultation form. What a great idea the citizen platform is.

Don't fool yourself. Yes you're able to express an opinion. Whether that opinion is read or taken into account is very doubtful indeed.

LefkosiaTigers · 04/02/2018 14:33

I cannot believe that this is even being considered. Why is there no thought for the women who need this service, traumatised women who need to be free from men?

Original poster
SmileEachDay · 04/02/2018 15:04

It’s worth anyone concerned about this contacting WA directly:

@Womensaid
www.womensaid.org.uk

Particularly if you are a woman who has used their refuges or services - although we all have a stake in this. They are looking at their policy at the moment - we need our voices heard to ensure the right outcome.

OP posts:
ChelleDawg2020 · 04/02/2018 15:22

I say this every time I see a thread like this, but I will say it again.

Either we accept that a person can change gender, in which case they should have the same rights as someone of their "new" gender, or we don't accept that people can change gender, in which they should have NONE of the rights someone of their preferred gender has.

It's offensive to suggest that it's OK for a woman to want to become a man, but be excluded from certain activities because she can't be a "proper" man. The same applies with the women's refuge situation. Either transwomen ARE women, or they aren't. There is no middle ground.

Original poster
SmileEachDay · 04/02/2018 15:47

Either we accept that a person can change gender

No - people can choose to present however they like - gender is a construct. People can present as unicorns for all I care.

What this madness requires is that we believe people can change biological sex.

OP posts:
DistanceCall · 04/02/2018 15:54

No - people can choose to present however they like - gender is a construct. People can present as unicorns for all I care.

What this madness requires is that we believe people can change biological sex.

Indeed. Transsexual people identify with a gender which is not the one that they were assigned at birth (to use the jargon). However, their biological sex remains the same - you can't change your chromosomes. A trans woman still has an XY pair.

Elendon · 04/02/2018 15:55

Either transwomen ARE women, or they aren't.

Do you think of yourself as a women ChelleDawg2020 because if you do you are a bigot and a TERF.

Transwomen/transsexual women are living in their preferred gender and understand that they are not women. They recognise they are men.

Fairenuff · 04/02/2018 16:03

Either we accept that a person can change gender...

What, for a day? A week? A year? Or what?

Try it on for size or convenience. No need for counselling or hormone treatment or surgery?

Just put on a dress and walk into women's changing rooms at the local swimming pool?

What? How are you going to monitor this? How are you going to keep women safe?