To have warmed to Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall

[octonaught]

I am old enough to remember the Diana years really clearly, including Charles & Diana’s wedding.
At the time I thought Camilla was awful “there were 3 of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded” said Diana, the media minx.
All 3 players, Diana, Charles & Camilla were victims of the protocols of the time, ie the future Queen needed to basically be a Virgin, & Charles & Diana basically had an arranged marriage, which just didn’t work out, but due to their position they weren’t allowed to quietly go their separate ways.
Charles & Camilla have —officially— been together over 20 years. Camilla has kept her head down & they look like a very happy couple.

I don’t know about the political ramifications of Camilla being queen or not. But as a person, she seems ok.

@IamLucy, I form an opinion on my boss or my next door neighbour based on my personal interactions with them. I have never met, and am never likely to meet, Camilla. I can’t form an opinion of someone with an extremely limited public role which is anyway circumscribed by the demands of her position.

YANBU. I have warmed to her too. She seems nice.

To many people, Camilla was 'that bitch' who upset Diana, and 'took her man!' (I mean the 'other woman' always gets the wrath right?!) But the thing is, Charles was more or less ordered to marry a young fertile virgin, to give him an heir and a spare, and Camilla didn't fit that profile.... so Diana it was! However, he knew Camilla before Diana, and he never stopped loving Camilla.

He never really loved Diana, and it was a shame. He loved Camilla. All along he loved her...... All 3 of them suffered to be honest, and it's a tragic tale. Lovely that Charles and Camilla are both happy now (and have been for over a decade or whatever,) but it was a tragic end for Diana. Unloved and rejected by Charles, (and also many of the Royal family,) and then killed in her prime in a nasty car crash.

I agree with a pp that the affair between Charles and Camilla added to her fragile emotional state, but as I said, it was a sad tale all round, and Charles should have been allowed to have been with Camilla to start with. None of the 3 in the marriage, were at fault really... It was just a sad set of circumstances... And yeah the marriage was 'arranged' ... Not forced, but arranged. Of course it was. Everyone knows that!!!

Even now I feel sad when I think of Diana's death. I really liked Diana. At least she (and Charlie-boy) gave us the lovely William and Harry though!. And as I said, at least Charles and Camilla are together now - and happy.

And no, I don't think Diana was a 'fucking saint' as a few have so politely put it! But she was a nice, fragile, vulnerable YOUNG woman. So you few that are bashing and berating her, we get it, you DID NOT LIKE HER, but there is no need to be so fucking horrible about her.

@LittleCandle post on page 1 is the worst comment, and I am not going to repeat it....... Shame on you.

I understood Anne and Tim Lawrence were basically not together anymore and she was with APB.

Really Anna? I thought Anne had more class than that. And sense.

Of course Camilla will be Queen, the wife of a King is always a Queen.

The husband of a Queen is not always given the title of King. He only gets that if he is a King in his own right. This is due to the (outdated) protocol that “King” outranks “Queen”. Hence why we have Prince Philip, rather than King Philip.

For me I’ve never been a huge Diana fan, but she went down further in my estimation when Prince Willliam said in an interview that he remembers her crying on his shoulder aged 13/14 over the Press. I get that she was upset by it all, but you don’t use your young children as your emotional crutch.

I like her.

And sometimes...in the complicated real life world...people are in love who for one reason or another end up marrying (and being in love with) other people rather than each other. Life is complicated. I wouldn't dislike her if she wasn't royal either.

Can't say I was much for Diana though. That being said she was really very young when married and although I think she was manipulative and probably very difficult to live with I can't blame her.

I think she seems nice and a right laugh.
Anyone remember her cracking up over those inuit singers in Canada? I know a lot of people said it was rude but it was so funny

Probably great fun to be with but I have not an iota of respect or admiration for her. Whatever you think of Diana, she was 19, let down by her family & manipulated by her husband and an older woman. Camilla also had zero respect for her children, putting them through that press scrutiny. Still, she got what she deserved, being married to Charles - shudder.

I like Camilla, to compete in the public eye with ‘saint Diana’ and come out the other side deserves some admiration at the very least.

I often think that Diana would’ve been the MIL from hell, I think Kate and Meghan have had a lucky escape... (obviously, awful that it happened though, I’d never wish death on anyone.)

Interesting that Princess Anne is rumoured to be with Andrew Parker Bowles. I think it is an open secret that Fergie & Andrew have been living together for some years.

Having warmed to Camilla does not mean that I condone the affair.
But having been divorced & my ex having an OW, I see that life is not straightforward. Diana, having been cheated on, was also the other woman. Oliver Hoare; Will Carling. I was Team Diana, but the reality of her complex personality, both good & bad which has come out since her death makes me see Camilla in a different light.

The Royal family had archaic rules 40 years ago.
As pp have said, the Upper Classes have their own weird rules. It’s not fidelity which is expected, but discretion. Let’s face it the Queen has put up with Prince Phillip’s affairs for years.

Camilla wasn’t Charles’ only mistress. There was Kanga Tryon, and after her death, there were rumours of Tara Palmer Tompkinson.

I just hope that this generation of Royals have happy, long lasting marriages. William has made a great choice in Kate and I hope Meghan is equally good. I also agree that Diana may have been the MIL from hell. I think she would have hated sharing the spotlight. She was not a woman’s woman. She definitely threw Fergie under the bus. They were both supposed to announce their separations together in 1992

Just recently watched The Diana Tapes on Netflixs, her talking about discovering the the cufflinks wedding present to Charles from Camilla with entwined C&C is so sad. Who wants to get married knowing your husband to be is in love with someone else. She talks about confronting Camilla at a party where Camilla says 'You have two beautiful children and the whole world is in love with you, what more do you want' and Diana says 'My Husband'. That was a rally teary moment.

Not really a royalist. I imagine Camilla would have been more suited to royal life, I think circumstances contributed to Diana's well being or lack of. Its a long time ago but she behaved selfishly and badly and a young vulnerable woman suffered.

Diana suffered so much that she felt the best thing to do was sleep with married men herself.

That's the thing that gets me with Diana. She knew how devastating it was to have her husband cheat and then she contributed to other women suffering the same.

She was certainly no saint.

Very true, I agree I think she was manipulative and petulant. She clearly wasn't a woman's woman but in the early days, when she expressed having doubts about the amreiage to her sister, her sister repiked you can't back out you on tea towels. That is a cross to bear for a 20 year old with zilch life experience

I would not say I have warmed to Camilla, but I do think when Charles is King it should be Queen Camilla as his wife, and respect her work with the National Osteoporosis Society.

Of course Camilla will be Queen, the wife of a King is always a Queen.

The wife of the Prince of Wales is always the Princess of Wales. But they've chosen for her not to use that title but to use a lesser title because they didn't think the public would stomach her as Princess of Wales.

Ten years ago I think this would also have been true of the title queen - there would have been a strong feeling amongst a lot of people that they didn't want Camilla to be queen, so they would have not used the title even though she'd be clearly entitled to it because they'd be afraid of boosting republican sentiment. Now, I'm not sure. Maybe they'll judge that the public would stomach it and she'll use the title.

It was such a messed up situation and I think everyone came out looking pretty bad, but I like her. I agree she looks fun.

I think things would have been very different if she hadn’t died prematurely.

Of course Camilla will be Queen, the wife of a King is always a Queen

Queen Consort actually, but yes that's true in substance

In this case, though, there remains the question of whether they're actually married at all. Let's not forget the legal reports which were commissioned around the validity of such a union in his particular circumstances - and which Charles promptly arranged to have sealed during his lifetime

An enquiring mind might well wonder why he was so keen to do this if those reports favoured his interests, but anyway it will be interesting to see whether the issue is raised again when the Queen passes

APB has been Annes escort for years. It's in the court circulars.

The whole 2nd wedding for Anne was TL falling on his proverbial sword. They were having a romantic dalliance. The press got hold of some intimate love letters, so he married her to protect her reputation. Jolly good egg! But it was never a love match. He gave up his life and dreams of a family of his own.

APB, catholic, Annes first boyfriend, that marriage was never going to be allowed to happen. Back then, she's have had to give up succession rights, so soon after the abdication and the Princess Margaret/Group Captain Townsend debacle.

In this case, though, there remains the question of whether they're actually married at all. Charles and Camilla had a civil ceremony, its legal. The Archbishop of Canterbury performed a private blessing, so its sanctified. The ecclesiastical argument would be with APB (catholic) and Camilla (CofE) - catholic wedding - probably not recognised by the CofE, but to openly say so would declare her children bastards! Charles, although we consider him divorced, in the eyes of the church he was a widower.

Camilla, as I understand it, has always said she does not wish to be Queen. She certainly doesn't have to be crowned - that's a recent innovation to crown consorts - she may choose to keep using the Cornwall title, but whether people like it or not, she will be queen if Charles is King, just as she is the Princess of Wales, as he is Prince.

"He loved Camilla. All along he loved her...... "

I don't think we can be sure of that. Because she was not his only mistress around the time of his engagement.

I think Diana's interview rewrote the past, in that it airbrushed the other main mistress out of public consciousness and made it all about Camilla, as a sole figure who could be held up for hatred. I do sometimes wonder if it was a deliberate attempt to ensure that Charles could never marry her? Or if he did, that he would never be king (something she alluded to)?

I think Charles behaved atrociously as he had more than one female close companion during the marriage. But I don't think that justified the lengths Diana went to publicly (can't have been fun for DC of a divorced family to hear a parent talking like that).

Though as other posters have noted, the children of that marriage seem to have turned out OK, and seem to be on genuinely amicable terms with their father's second wife.

I’d forgotten about that Puzzled!

I’m surprised if Diana thought Prince Charles was in love with her- it must have been clear to her he wasn’t. So why did she marry him? Even at 20 you would know to back out!

She was a master manipulator & yes she’d have hated Kate & Meghan- share the limelight. Not Diana. Crying in front of your child - selfish. Me Me Me.

Well hopefully the Queen will have the same staying power as the Queen Mother, so Charles will be almost 80 when he gets a sniff at the throne. I think the question of whether Camilla should be Queen Consort will be a moot point.

To be honest I think the Queen has handed over most duties to Charles. When Prince Phillip retired from Royal engagements, it would appear that the Queen stepped back without making a big fuss. I think at 90; she should be allowed to put her feet up...!

I imagine Camilla would have been more suited to royal life

This is one concern I have about Meghan Markle, she's from a different country and way of life. The upper classes are familiar with family history, family wealth, heritage, influence, able to understand and share upper class values and traditions.

Camilla fits in perfectly. Kate has been able to adapt. Meghan, I'm not so sure. Although MM is becoming a British citizen I can see her Harry spending a lot of time in the US where she will feel more at home.

I quite like Camilla too. That doesnt mean I condone their affair either, but all of them were shagging around and Diana continued targetting married men after her own marriage ended. Both the Spencers and the Windsors manipulated a not very bright or worldly young girl for their own ends. Charles was weak willed and stupid enough to go along with it. I thought Camilla married APB because Charles was dithering about getting married and didn't get his finger out until she had had enough and left him for APB.
I also think William and Harry do have genuine affection for her. They have said nice things about her that they didnt need to say and have said they are pleased that their father is happy. I would have thought that they are pleased that their only surviving parent is contented and happy with the person he should have had the balls to marry in the first place. My parents have a similar age gap to Charles and Diana. They had an arranged marriage. They have almost nothing in common. Both of them spend their time sniping and criticising each other endlessly. Its patently obvious as a product of that marriage they shouldnt have got married. Even though Im glad my brother and I are alive, it doesnt change that fact. Its been a life sentence for both of them.

Yes I suspect Harry and Meghan will spend a lot of time in the US or Canada/ To be honest, I think its the Royal sycophants, the courtiers and the Americans who are most against MM marrying into the RF. The RF and the aristo's dont seem to care as much, probably because they know it's their heads on the chopping blocks come the Revolution, so they are aware of the need to adapt.

I think Meghan and Harry will be expected to have a supporting role to William & Kate; a bit like The Earl & Countess of Wessex: working Royals. I also think their children will not get Prince & Princess titles, but Lord & Lady. I am not sure what the letters patent say about the children of non heir prince. I guess the children are styled as children of a Duke...

why did she marry him? Even at 20 you would know to back out!

There are posters here whose 20 year old kids are apparently incapable of going to the doctor alone or writing an essay without hand holding. But apparently the 20 year old Diana was supposed to resist what her family were telling her was her duty to the nation?